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  #1  
Old 09-07-2005, 07:22 PM
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Default Poorly played pocket pair?

Mega fish at the table, just joined, don't have any specific reads, but i can tell, this table is llooosseee.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50. UTG posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG (poster) checks, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO (poster) calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (14.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, CO folds.

River: (10.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button calls.

Final Pot: 16.75 BB
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  #2  
Old 09-07-2005, 07:31 PM
MrWookie47 MrWookie47 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ^^ That wookie
Posts: 1,485
Default Re: Poorly played pocket pair?

That flop call is pretty shady, but implied odds make it close. Check/calling the turn is terrible. Bet/3b, c/r, something. The c/c is burning money.
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  #3  
Old 09-07-2005, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: Poorly played pocket pair?

I think your right. The flop call was because i didn't put him on an ace, but not that i think about it, it was pretty certain he had one.
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  #4  
Old 09-07-2005, 07:54 PM
eviljeff eviljeff is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 37
Default Re: Poorly played pocket pair?

[ QUOTE ]
The flop call was because i didn't put him on an ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a horrible reason to call the flop.

you need to think a lot more broadly than this. some things you need to ask yourself:
how often is my hand best?
how many ways (outs) do I have to improve?
when I improve how often will my hand be best? and how often will it hold up? and how many extra bets can I expect to make?
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  #5  
Old 09-07-2005, 07:58 PM
Rev. Good Will Rev. Good Will is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: failing computer science
Posts: 591
Default Re: Poorly played pocket pair?

Cap flop with 2 callers in for the ride

...I'm with the wookie on the flop line

EDIT - and C/R turn you mofo!
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  #6  
Old 09-07-2005, 08:01 PM
Aaron W. Aaron W. is offline
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Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 87
Default Re: Poorly played pocket pair?

[ QUOTE ]
Cap flop with 2 callers in for the ride

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you mean cap preflop. I would rather not. TT is the sort of hand that you often have to ditch on the flop against a 3-bettor.
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  #7  
Old 09-07-2005, 08:03 PM
turaho turaho is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 70
Default Re: Poorly played pocket pair?

[ QUOTE ]
I think your right. The flop call was because i didn't put him on an ace, but not that i think about it, it was pretty certain he had one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if he didn't have an ace, what does he 3-bet with that you're currently beating on that flop?

Implied odds make that an almost good flop call. Any less and I dump it.

I prefer a c/r to a donkbet on the turn because I think KK/QQ/JJ will call you down if you donkbet. I'm not too worried about driving CO out with a c/r because either:

A) he's calling down with an ace
B) he just made an inside straight draw and might call (even though the pot isn't giving him the right odds)
C) he's one of those "peel the flop/fold the turn" donks and he's going to fold anyway.

Donk betting may also cause a scared AK/AQ to call down too, thinking you hit two pair.

Either way, I'm leading the river.
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  #8  
Old 09-07-2005, 09:18 PM
SmileyPSU SmileyPSU is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 6
Default Re: Poorly played pocket pair?

I wouldn't call the flop, seeing as you're probably beaten here with only two outs to improve. You got lucky and hit your 10 on the turn. I'd donkbet the turn hoping I get raised (which he probably would have since he raised your river bet), and def. get as much money in on the river as possible.

I think the only iffy part of the hand is your call on the flop. I'd be more inclined to lead the turn but the call hoping for an overcall is understandable.

And the longer I think about it, the more I don't like the flop call.
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2005, 09:30 PM
crownjules crownjules is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 189
Default Re: Poorly played pocket pair?

Getting 15.5:1 on the flop call, you should probably fold that. Even with CO also calling, you need 7 SBs to make up the difference. You fail to start making those up when you hit your miracle 2-outer and simply C/C!! C'mon man. A C/R could make villain slow down, so I'd donkbet and hope he raises so I can 3-bet. The river A will probably give you a chance to extract even more bets out of him.
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  #10  
Old 09-07-2005, 09:37 PM
Paxosmotic Paxosmotic is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Donking
Posts: 678
Default Re: Poorly played pocket pair?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cap flop with 2 callers in for the ride

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you mean cap preflop. I would rather not. TT is the sort of hand that you often have to ditch on the flop against a 3-bettor.

[/ QUOTE ]
Capping also gives us just enough money in the pot to peel a missed flop hoping to turn that T. We give up 1BB (preflop and a flop peel) to win many, many BB. I'm not fer it or gin it, but it's worth a ponder, a'reckon.
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