oh no, not that river.. what to do? (11's)

#1 08-09-2005, 11:11 PM

about the 5th hand, table is playing stupidly loose and passive preflop. preflop call is marginal, and i know it.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

SB (t710)
BB (t660)
Hero (t800)
UTG+1 (t1315)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t690)
MP2 (t760)
MP3 (t775)
CO (t765)
Button (t725)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero calls t15, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls t15, 3 folds, CO calls t15, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t72.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t40, UTG+2 calls t40, CO calls t40, SB calls t40, BB calls t40.

Turn: (t272.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t300, UTG+2 folds, CO calls t300, SB folds, BB folds.

River: (t872.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

now what? we both have close to 400-450 behind

bluefeet · #2 08-10-2005, 12:00 AM

fold PF! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] (seriously though...late position MAYBE)

i don't know dude....any check/bet short of a push is screaming "steal me". could be a donk on a missed flush draw.

choices:
- check/fold
- check/call (AI most likely)
- t100/fold to push (yuk)
- push

3 of the 4, you're all but dead. check/fold and get blinded down to nadda? i'd recklessly just push and pray he was on a flush draw [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] (punishment for playing PF)

nate_king1 · #3 08-10-2005, 12:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
now what? we both have close to 400-450 behind

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't call with 78s UTG. Simple as that.

moose47 · #4 08-10-2005, 12:36 AM

I think the only two options here are check/call or push. You have come this far so just pray he is on a busted flush draw. Given those two choices, check/calling is my preferred play. If your opponent has the Queen then you are going broke either way. If he doesn't then at least give him a chance to bluff at the river. Certainly a missed flushed draw isn't calling a push so the only way to get chips from him is to allow him to bet.

psyduck · #5 08-10-2005, 12:45 AM

check/call, check/fold, and it really depends on reads.

another option is to make a small blocking bet, like T100. even a minbet (T15) works sometimes! you might as well try.

btw, limping UTG with 87s is marginally okay. I'm tending to do it a lot in the higher levels. if you're raised a fair amount, you can let it go. however, implied odds are amazing here, which is obviously why you make the play. if you can get away from top pair or something on a board, then by all means go for it and limp these sort of hands

edit: by higher levels, I mean higher buyins, not blind levels

#6 08-10-2005, 12:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Don't call with 78s UTG. Simple as that.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, amazing thought process, thank you for answering the question. sng forum needs more posters like you.

#7 08-10-2005, 12:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the only two options here are check/call or push. You have come this far so just pray he is on a busted flush draw. Given those two choices, check/calling is my preferred play. If your opponent has the Queen then you are going broke either way. If he doesn't then at least give him a chance to bluff at the river. Certainly a missed flushed draw isn't calling a push so the only way to get chips from him is to allow him to bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is what i wish i had done in hindsight, and i definitely agree with this.

amazingly enough, i was dead the entire time and the queen actually saved me. i pushed and was called by A7. crazy!

and regarding the limp, the previous 4 hands had gone 5+ limpers with no raise. with implied odds i am going to do this every time, even UTG. i can fold to a raise easily. but that wasn't the question.

nate_king1 · #8 08-10-2005, 01:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't call with 78s UTG. Simple as that.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, amazing thought process, thank you for answering the question. sng forum needs more posters like you.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL..If you call 78s UTG you are a fish just trying to keep busy. I wouldn't even be in this mess. You seem like your good enough to play any hand and outplay them. NOT at the 11s. Your mistake....

lastchance · #9 08-10-2005, 01:26 AM

Position matters, and folding preflop is a good idea, but w/e.

Flop play. I bet more than t40 here, I bet t60. You need to make a signifigant bet with a scary board and a heavy field.

Turn: T300? Meh. There's t275 in the pot, you've got t750 behind... In hindsight, pushing might be good here, though t300...

I would have bet t200-t250 if I didn't push and the pot was about that big, makes it easier to play the river.

On the end, you simply can't push. You're not getting a better hand to fold, and you're not getting a worse hand to call.

You must check or block bet here. Checking allows Villain to bluff with nothing, block bet allows you to stall A-high but fold to Queens full.

bluefeet · #10 08-10-2005, 01:34 AM

Me: i'd recklessly just push and pray he was on a flush draw (punishment for playing PF)

-- very VERY dumb advice

Mr.Chance & Moose & Duck: [ QUOTE ]
On the end, you simply can't push. You're not getting a better hand to fold, and you're not getting a worse hand to call.

You must check or block bet here. Checking allows Villain to bluff with nothing, block bet allows you to stall A-high but fold to Queens full.

[/ QUOTE ]

...thank you guys for taking the time to answer this correctly (my bad)