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  #11  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: Can I fold this, good hand?, good pot

[ QUOTE ]
Folding on the flop is absolutely insane. Folding on the turn is near insane. Folding on the river is bad, but not quite insane.

[/ QUOTE ]

To the OP, you knew you could be up against a bigger A, which is why you called down. I think you played it well and it's just one of those hands you have to payoff at 2/4 online poker.
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  #12  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:19 PM
MrEngenic MrEngenic is offline
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Default Re: Can I fold this, good hand?, good pot

Why doesn't anyone comment on the flop donk?
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  #13  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Can I fold this, good hand?, good pot

Pairofelevens,

Why not give my the benefit of the doubt and assume I'm not being results oriented?

In my original post I stated I believed I might be getting as little as 7 to 2.5 effective odds, I was check raised by a player who I haven't seen play aggressive. Excuse me but I honestly thought the proper play here was a matter of judgement and therefore borderline.
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  #14  
Old 12-22-2005, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Can I fold this, good hand?, good pot

[ QUOTE ]
Why not give my the benefit of the doubt and assume I'm not being results oriented?


[/ QUOTE ]

It would be contrary to human nature to post this if you had split or won it, especially with the "can I fold this" header. Poker players read people, hands, posts... everything has a nuance. Of course he assumed you lost it, your posting it in the way you did was a tell. *g*

And, btw, you can't fold this without a montser read on villain. Not at 2/4.
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  #15  
Old 12-22-2005, 11:29 PM
livinitup0 livinitup0 is offline
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Default Re: Can I fold this, good hand?, good pot

[ QUOTE ]
Villian is 20/0/1.9, I have about 50 hands with opponent, he hadn't done anything noteworthy.

I'm figuring at the point of me calling the check/raise on the flop at worse I have effective odds of 7 to 2.5 on calling down. But I figure most of the time I'm behind here and I've got the risk of the flush draw hitting.

It seems unlikely the check/raiser was a worse hand, although he's probably value raising a flush draw.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, MP1 calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls, MP1 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP and answered your question I believe.
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  #16  
Old 12-22-2005, 11:30 PM
livinitup0 livinitup0 is offline
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Default Re: Can I fold this, good hand?, good pot

[ QUOTE ]
Why doesn't anyone comment on the flop donk?

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #17  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:03 AM
WillMagic WillMagic is offline
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Posts: 250
Default Re: Can I fold this, good hand?, good pot

To those of you advocating either three-betting the flop or raising the turn...what do your bets and raises accomplish? And why do you want to knock out the third player so badly? It should strike you that if it is possible to knock out the third player we probably don't want to.

To the OP: I like your line.

Will
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  #18  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:15 AM
Clarkmeister Clarkmeister is offline
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Default Re: Can I fold this, good hand?, good pot

There's a flopped flush draw. You want to let the 3rd player see the river for 1 bet on the turn?
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  #19  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:28 AM
Sintax Sintax is offline
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Default Small change in the scenario....

Suppose the checkraise from the sb comes on the turn. Would you fold right there or continue to call down?
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  #20  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:30 AM
WillMagic WillMagic is offline
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Location: Cupertino, CA (formerly DC)
Posts: 250
Default Re: Can I fold this, good hand?, good pot

[ QUOTE ]
There's a flopped flush draw. You want to let the 3rd player see the river for 1 bet on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's better than getting three-bet, that's for sure.

Let's try and weigh it out.

The turn raise is good when we are ahead of the SB AND the other caller has specifically a flush draw, in which case we gain about .8 of a bet by raising instead of calling.

The turn raise is bad when:

a) the SB has us beat with a better ace and we get three-bet. Since we have to call, we lose about 1.8 BB's on the turn. If we can fold UI we'll save a BB on the river, for a net loss of .8 BB's as opposed to calling down.

b) the CO has a hand that is not a flush draw but that he could call with...if he has a low pocket pair and would call one bet on the turn but not two (not an inconceivable scenario) we lose about .5 BB by chasing him out when he already doesn't have the odds to draw. If he has an even worse hand, like x6, and he was willing to call one but not two, we'd be losing a full BB. Also in the rare situation that he has the better ace as opposed to the PFR, he certainly isn't folding, and we lose BB's then.

IMHO the latter scenarios are far more likely than the scenario in which the CO has a flush draw and the SB doesn't have us beat, and calling down is superior.

Will
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