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  #11  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:30 PM
drewjustdrew drewjustdrew is offline
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Default Re: Men Nguyen makes the best/worst fold ever at the 2003 WSOP ME

To put him on just AA here would be remarkable, since there is no reason for Grey to just call here, unless the unlikely event that he tried a stop and go of 65000 into a decent sized pot.
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  #12  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:58 PM
NLfool NLfool is offline
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Default Re: Men Nguyen makes the best/worst fold ever at the 2003 WSOP ME

I've played with Men twice in the last year in a few smaller buyin tournies and he was probably the tightest player at the table both times. I don't remember him drinking either, kinda the exact opposite as they portray him on tv
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  #13  
Old 12-21-2005, 02:21 PM
FoxwoodsFiend FoxwoodsFiend is offline
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Default Re: Men Nguyen makes the best/worst fold ever at the 2003 WSOP ME

[ QUOTE ]
Very specific tournament situation....sometimes all the math in the world has to give away to your read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear people say something like this all the time. It isn't true. In all cases you do the math after using your read to figure out a hand range. The math never "gives way" to the read it just processes the right response given your read.
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  #14  
Old 12-21-2005, 02:49 PM
Army Eye Army Eye is offline
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Default Re: Men Nguyen makes the best/worst fold ever at the 2003 WSOP ME

This was an amazing fold that didn't get that much attention at the time.

I wonder if it was because Lon + Norman didn't make that big a deal out of it (they were even more clueless then) or just the fact that it was not totally apparent how pot-stuck Men was (obviously hard to tell these kinds of things from ESPN's coverage).
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  #15  
Old 12-21-2005, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Men Nguyen makes the best/worst fold ever at the 2003 WSOP ME

Men probably had a read that if David was on anything other than AA or KK, he just reraises all in.
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  #16  
Old 12-21-2005, 05:37 PM
A_C_Slater A_C_Slater is offline
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Default Re: Men Nguyen makes the best/worst fold ever at the 2003 WSOP ME

Here's another amazing fold from the same event that wasn't shown on ESPN as it occured at a non hole card cam table, this time made by Sam Farha:


(2500/5000 blinds)

We are down to 27 players, but we have to wait. Sammy Farha is playing a huge pot with Bryan Watkins. The flop came Q72, and they both checked. The turn came (Q72) 4 and Bryan bet and Sammy called. The river was (Q724) J with no suits. Bryan moved in for over 200,000. Sammy thought for five minutes. He finally turned over the QJ and folded!!


Lederer goes on to cover the rest of his run then overhears this conversation between Bryan Watkins and a friend.





As I left the Horseshoe, I was walking right behind Bryan Watkins. He had finished 20th. I overheard him telling his friend about the incredible lay down that Sammy made against him. Bryan had made trip 4's on 4th street (wow).
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  #17  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:50 AM
snappo snappo is offline
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Default Re: Men Nguyen makes the best/worst fold ever at the 2003 WSOP ME

Interesting to note that Barry Greenstein says that David Grey is pretty much the only highstakes player that plays ABC:

http://www.barrygreenstein.com/dgrey.htm

"
Looseness: 3 [3/10]
Aggressiveness: 4 [4/10]

If anyone plays by the book, David Grey does. He plays with good starting hands and generally plays them to the river. Of all the players who have tried an ABC approach to poker, David is the only one who has been able to compete at the highest levels. Solid, predictable play is often unsuccessful in high stakes games, but David has good self-control, knowledge of all games, and reasonable game-selection skills.
"
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