Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Limit Texas Hold'em > Small Stakes Shorthanded

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-27-2005, 12:33 AM
imported_leader imported_leader is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Around Boston
Posts: 510
Default 5/10: Weird hand I iso raise QT hit an iffy river

CO has been tight passivish in his first 18 hands. So basically assume he's not a manic.
MP is 30/20ish TAG over a small sample.

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, Hero calls.

Not much of a read on CO so I go for the iso raise. Bad? BB is tight.

Flop: (10 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

umm WTF? I checked because I'm beat like always and didn't think people were folding.

Turn: (5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (8 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero...

I'm leaning toward fold. Weak?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-27-2005, 12:46 AM
Jake (The Snake) Jake (The Snake) is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 93
Default Re: 5/10: Weird hand I iso raise QT hit an iffy river

With only 18 hands on villain I'd call in this spot. Even if he really is passive he could still be betting with 88 or 99. I want a better read before I fold. I expect to lose a lot though.

Edit: I missed SB. Is he the TAG?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:03 AM
imported_leader imported_leader is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Around Boston
Posts: 510
Default Re: 5/10: Weird hand I iso raise QT hit an iffy river

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: I missed SB. Is he the TAG?

[/ QUOTE ]

30/20 less then 100 hands
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:20 AM
MexKrax MexKrax is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 24
Default Re: 5/10: Weird hand I iso raise QT hit an iffy river

Folding the river seems like the right play to me. Heads up vs. CO I'd probably call, but not with the SB still in the hand.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-27-2005, 02:05 PM
imported_leader imported_leader is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Around Boston
Posts: 510
Default Re: 5/10: Weird hand I iso raise QT hit an iffy river

bump. I'd like to get some more thoughts on calling the river. I think we have CO beat some amount of the time greater then 1 in 9, but does SB's presence make it not worth a call?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-27-2005, 02:35 PM
TomBrooks TomBrooks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: .5/1 Full Hand
Posts: 671
Default Re: 5/10: Weird hand I iso raise QT hit an iffy river

Preflop: Fold
Flop: Bet

Hand plays differently after that

River as played: Call
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-27-2005, 02:41 PM
imported_leader imported_leader is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Around Boston
Posts: 510
Default Re: 5/10: Weird hand I iso raise QT hit an iffy river

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Fold
Flop: Bet

Hand plays differently after that

River as played: Call

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-27-2005, 03:16 PM
TomBrooks TomBrooks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: .5/1 Full Hand
Posts: 671
Default Re: 5/10: Weird hand I iso raise QT hit an iffy river

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Fold
Flop: Bet
Hand plays differently after that
River as played: Call

[/ QUOTE ]
Why?

[/ QUOTE ]
PREFLOP
The starting hand chart says to fold. I suppose for the usual reasons: Not good enough to call with and play multiway, not strong enough to raise with and try and get HU with. Susceptible to domination.

FLOP
<u>Use Your Position</u>
Because it's checked to you and you have position on the field. Using that position you can often win the hand right here. You probably have the best hand anyway or are second best only to a King which will be hard pressed to call a bet from you.

<u>Get Better Hands to Fold</u>
You can get other better hands to fold such as any five, six, 77, 88, 99.

<u>Don't Give a Free Card</u>
If you give a free card here, you give someone who might have folded a free shot to make a good or great hand like a set or a straight.

<u>Semi-Bluff, You Have Outs.</u>
You also have other outs. Both your cards are higher than the middle card on the flop and either one would probably make top pair. You have a backdoor flush and BD straight draw.

<u>Clean up Your Outs</u>
The King [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] might correctly fold here, cleaning up your 8 Backdoor Flush outs.

Any KQ or QJ might correctly fold here, cleaning up up to six of your Q and T outs.

<u>Set Yourself Up to Take it Down on the Turn</u>
If betting doesn't win the pot for you outright on the flop, it may set you up to take it down on the turn. The [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] that came set you up nicely to make another semi-bluff bet, but you no longer had the initiative that would help you take it down now, so you might as well just call this street.

RIVER
You might have the best hand. You likely have the top pair. The CO might be betting a pair lower than yours. Hope he didn't make a flush, straight, two pair or a set. You win this more than one time in 9.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-27-2005, 04:24 PM
imported_leader imported_leader is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Around Boston
Posts: 510
Default Re: 5/10: Weird hand I iso raise QT hit an iffy river

[ QUOTE ]
PREFLOP
The starting hand chart says to fold. I suppose for the usual reasons: Not good enough to call with and play multiway, not strong enough to raise with and try and get HU with. Susceptible to domination.

[/ QUOTE ]

First I don't use starting hand charts. They just represent the OP's opinion on what <u>standard</u> plays are PF. They aren't situational. Using a starting hand chart at 5/10 is just plain silly. Second, I have no idea what starting hand chart you're referring to. The generally accepted one around here is MEbenhoe's:



So it avocates a limp, but that's beside the point. I raised because the blinds were tight and an unknown (basically) open limped in the CO. This is going to be HU a lot, and CO is going to have a worse hand a lot. Plus I'll have position on him. I really wouldn't even consider folding here unless I've seem CO limp in this spot with Ax or KT or something.

[ QUOTE ]
FLOP
<u>Use Your Position</u>
Because it's checked to you and you have position on the field. Using that position you can often win the hand right here. You probably have the best hand anyway or are second best only to a King which will be hard pressed to call a bet from you.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is very wrong. If a TAGish player 3-bets me, I almost always have the worst hand with QT. There are really only 3 reasons he would check here.
-He has a mid-high PP and has decided I'm the type to bluff at it all the way to the river with nothing or he wants to CR and force CO out
-He has a monster like AA or AK and is afraid of scaring me out.
-He's a post flop pussy and he's checking KQ, KJ, QJs.

The first too are far more likely then the third, IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
<u>Get Better Hands to Fold</u>
You can get other better hands to fold such as any five, six, 77, 88, 99.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not folding 77-99 very often and he's not 3-betting any hands with a 5 or a 6 and if he was they'd be 66,55,A6,A5.

[ QUOTE ]
<u>Don't Give a Free Card</u>
If you give a free card here, you give someone who might have folded a free shot to make a good or great hand like a set or a straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

But I want a free card. My hand sucks but I have a couple of BD draws.

[ QUOTE ]
<u>Semi-Bluff, You Have Outs.</u>
You also have other outs. Both your cards are higher than the middle card on the flop and either one would probably make top pair. You have a backdoor flush and BD straight draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

SB isn't folding often enough to justify this and CO could get stubborn with a PP.

[ QUOTE ]
<u>Clean up Your Outs</u>
The King [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] might correctly fold here, cleaning up your 8 Backdoor Flush outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

The parlay there is very small. He has to have 3-bet a hand with a K in it. It has to be the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. He has to have checked it. Then he has to fold it. This happens so rarely it's not really worth considering.

[ QUOTE ]
Any KQ or QJ might correctly fold here, cleaning up up to six of your Q and T outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, but he has other things far more then those.

[ QUOTE ]
<u>Set Yourself Up to Take it Down on the Turn</u>
If betting doesn't win the pot for you outright on the flop, it may set you up to take it down on the turn. The [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] that came set you up nicely to make another semi-bluff bet, but you no longer had the initiative that would help you take it down now, so you might as well just call this street.

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting the turn after betting the flop and getting called is very spewy and money loser. He's folding to the turn bet even less then the flop bet. If he called the flop, he's seeing SD, IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-27-2005, 04:43 PM
dealer_toe dealer_toe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 297
Default Re: 5/10: Weird hand I iso raise QT hit an iffy river

SB at best has JJ-KK imo, anything better he's betting the flop, anything way better (slowplay) he's c/r'ing or betting the turn. I almost think a raise on the river is best if you think you can beat the CO. That board definetly hits a lot of the CO's possible limping hands based on your limited read. I think its fold or raise.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.