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  #11  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:16 AM
imported_leader imported_leader is offline
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Default Re: was this a bad play?

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The flop call is pretty thin since you're not closing the action. Not terrible though.

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Flop call is horrible.

Krishan

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Ok...I'll keep an open mind.
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  #12  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:22 AM
krishanleong krishanleong is offline
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Default Re: was this a bad play?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The flop call is pretty thin since you're not closing the action. Not terrible though.

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Flop call is horrible.

Krishan

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Ok...I'll keep an open mind.

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Hand is just too marginal. You are drawing to a not clean 6 outs in a pot that is too small for 6 outs to draw where there is a preflop raiser yet to act on an ace high board. Not good.

Krishan
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  #13  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:33 AM
imported_leader imported_leader is offline
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Default Re: was this a bad play?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The flop call is pretty thin since you're not closing the action. Not terrible though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop call is horrible.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok...I'll keep an open mind.

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Hand is just too marginal. You are drawing to a not clean 6 outs in a pot that is too small for 6 outs to draw where there is a preflop raiser yet to act on an ace high board. Not good.

Krishan

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Yeah I wasn't thinking about the PFR being behind us. Good point we're paying 2 or worse having to fold to two pretty often.
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  #14  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:34 AM
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Default Re: was this a bad play?

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Flop call is horrible.

Krishan

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Yeah, don't like the turn either.
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  #15  
Old 12-26-2005, 01:45 AM
lighterjobs lighterjobs is offline
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Default Re: was this a bad play?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The flop call is pretty thin since you're not closing the action. Not terrible though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop call is horrible.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

three handed with the button raising every hand this is a bad call?
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  #16  
Old 12-26-2005, 02:45 AM
jba jba is offline
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Default Re: was this a bad play?

flop and turn are both pretty gross. originally i thought preflop was marginal but 3handed yeah I'm down

flop for reasons krishan mentioned

turn because you have a really [censored] hand and no fold equity and you just decided you wanted to pay extra to draw? i mean he seems to have an A or better or a flush draw and most of the time you're going to get 3/2 bets out of these ranges when you hit regardless of your line, so I really don't see any benefit (if he has an A+ he will call your raise when bdfd comes in, and if he has a FD he'll bluff hte river most likely) , but you're going to get raped when he 3bets a good made hand on the turn here, and you're not guaranteed to see a showdown anyways.
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  #17  
Old 12-26-2005, 03:08 AM
Kumubou Kumubou is offline
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Default Re: was this a bad play?

[ QUOTE ]
Flop call is horrible.

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I missed the memo where calling a 7:1 shot drawing to six effective outs (needting 6.7:1) is a horrible play.

You figure his 2s are almost certainly winners, and his Qs are likely to give him the best hand (even though one would bring a three-flush). He has a perfect-perfect gutshot to the nuts (which could put a three or even four-flush, and/or lead to a chop -- so it isn't worth much) and a backdoor flush draw that's almost certainly good. I think calling that six outs total (even with the dirtiness of some the draws) is a reasonable estimate.

It's a thin flop call (especially given the fact that he is not closing the action), but calling it 'horrible' is just overkill.

-K
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  #18  
Old 12-26-2005, 03:11 AM
jba jba is offline
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Default Re: was this a bad play?

six outs is too generous IMO

people having 5-9 out redraws against almost all outs exect the 2s are very reasonable, flushes when you hit your straight, etc.
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  #19  
Old 12-26-2005, 03:25 AM
PokerSparky PokerSparky is offline
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Default Re: was this a bad play?

I have a bigger problem with the turn raise than the flop peel. I think folding on the flop is the best play with the PFR yet to act, but I would have peeled here if I were closing the action.

On the turn, I think your raise should have some chance of folding SB, but from your description, it doesn't sound like SB is the folding type.
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  #20  
Old 12-26-2005, 03:28 AM
TomBrooks TomBrooks is offline
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Default Re: was this a bad play?

I'd fold the flop. You have the SB betting into the pfr'r with you still in the hand also. He almost surely has an ace. That means your're drawing very thin. Your BD flush draw to the 3rd nuts is worth about 1.4 outs if Q hi is good enough.

Even if he only has a ten, you have only three outs at most to a Queen pair and it has a two kicker. Argh, dump this.

Turn. I'd just call. I don't think you can get SB to fold. Without fold equity, raising doesn't have enough value.
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