Big fat ugly posting hand.. flame me!

britspin · #1 09-09-2005, 10:24 PM

This one had me befuddled on almost every street. critique away.

I'm posting in CO- That's allowed right?

Cryptologic 1.00/2.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero checks, Button raises, 1 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

OK by the time it get's back to me its 9.5-1. Surely I have to see a flop even with rubbish?

Flop: (10.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

So I flop top pair. checked to me, and I bet to see if PFR is playing OC or big pair. OK, Big pair it is. That leaves me with 2 10's and 3 6's to improve. 5 outs on a 16-1 shot? got to call again, right?

Turn: (8.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

OK, no flush. I now have 4 more outs though as the 4 makes the straight.

River: (11.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB raises, Hero calls, Button calls.

OK, 2 pair. Time to C/R that fool on the Button. I pity that fool. What? Oh god.. surely not 89. Should i call? But what i'f he's just made a smaller 2 pair? I can't fold for 2 bets surely? OK I call.

Final Pot: 17.25 BB.

hemstock · #2 09-09-2005, 10:30 PM

Fold preflop. You don't have to see a flop with T6o EVER.

AngelicPenguin · #3 09-09-2005, 10:31 PM

Everything looks fine to me except the river. I usually just lead since I'm afraid Button might give up w/ unimproved overs and it would get checked through. How you played it, I just call BB raise too.

Edit:not sure about preflop, personally I'd muck, but I think I miss too many opportunities with a lot of money already in.

britspin · #4 09-09-2005, 10:34 PM

I see your point, but you think with 3 opponent's I don't have 9.5-1 here?

closer2313 · #5 09-09-2005, 10:56 PM

I personally just fold this when it comes back to me. If it was suited, or a little more connected I would call. But you are gonna need to make 2 pair or trips with this to win most times.

Flop

Why bet?

Scenario one. He has something like AK. You bet, he calls, everyone calls. Your hand is extremely vunerable.

Scenario two. He has AA. You bet, he raises, everyone folds. You are drawing to 5 outs.

Now look at this. When he raises to "protect your hand" most of the other people are drawing extremely thin, as well as you. You end up putting in 2 bets when you are way behind.

If he has AK, you are putting in 1 bet, but everyone else is calling anyway.

Now look at this. If you check, he will bet whether he has AA or AK. You now get the same effect of betting and him calling with AK (scenario 2), except now you have no chance to be raised.

I would check/call the flop.

Turn is Fine.

I lead the river to prevent it from getting checked through.

tyler_cracker · #6 09-09-2005, 11:32 PM

Other posters have convinced me that leading the river is correct. Thanks, other posters!

closer continues to make good arguments against leading the flop (he provided these in another thread yesterday). Thanks, closer!

Are we really good 1 in 7 times when BB check-raises? We're also not closing the action, but unless button has the extremely unlikely TT, we're ahead of him, and i doubt he's 3-betting here. I think we're going to see 89 or some goofy 4 an awful lot here. Still, the pot is kinda big, and button is probably contributing another BB of dead money. Convince me, other posters!

Also, reads would help here. If button is a LAG, i think the river check-raise is a better idea. If BB is anything but a total retard (or super tricky), that pushes the river towards a fold.

milesdyson · #7 09-09-2005, 11:34 PM

i definitely wouldn't call the river.

i'd also fold preflop, but would call with 54o.

Aaron W. · #8 09-09-2005, 11:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This one had me befuddled on almost every street. critique away.

I'm posting in CO- That's allowed right?

Cryptologic 1.00/2.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero checks, Button raises, 1 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

OK by the time it get's back to me its 9.5-1. Surely I have to see a flop even with rubbish?

Flop: (10.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

So I flop top pair. checked to me, and I bet to see if PFR is playing OC or big pair. OK, Big pair it is. That leaves me with 2 10's and 3 6's to improve. 5 outs on a 16-1 shot? got to call again, right?

Turn: (8.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

OK, no flush. I now have 4 more outs though as the 4 makes the straight.

River: (11.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB raises, Hero calls, Button calls.

OK, 2 pair. Time to C/R that fool on the Button. I pity that fool. What? Oh god.. surely not 89. Should i call? But what i'f he's just made a smaller 2 pair? I can't fold for 2 bets surely? OK I call.

Final Pot: 17.25 BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop: I don't care either way. If you've got a decent postflop game, I can't imagine that a loose call here is going to kill you. You're closing the action and you've got position on PFR to see what EVERYBODY ELSE is going to do after his bet, so you can ditch to a check-raise or peel the flop getting good odds and closing the action (again).

I would check the flop to see what PFR will do and (more importantly) what everybody else does. I expect him to bet almost all of the time here, so I'm not really concerned about giving up a free card. And if you do -- meh -- it happens. I probably donk the turn, but I might think about check-raising if it's heads up.