My 2 questionable hands of the night....

aK13 · #1 06-16-2005, 05:57 AM

MP3 is new to the table on this orbit, no solid reads, but doesn't seem too loose.
CO is fairly LAGgy (40/21/2) and is shortstacked to ~4 big bets (the turn bet puts him all in)
UTG+1 is your grade A calling station

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, CO caps, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, CO raises all-in ($1.5), Hero raises...

Convertor messed up here, so I tried to fix it. CO raised about .5BB, so my raise "completes" the raise by making it 1 more BB. I left out the river on purpose.
_________________________________________

MP2 here is tight, possibly rockish, although could have just had a bad run of cards (14%/6.5/1.5 over 40 hands)
SB just posted BB, no reads.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, MP2 caps, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)

SB checks, MP2 bets, Hero folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: 9 BB

thesharpie · #2 06-16-2005, 06:13 AM

How did you get to reraise the turn in hand 1, convertor messup?

I don't fold the turn in hand 2 unless I have a good read villain would only do this with a high pocket pair. Even if he has a range of TT-AA and AK you should call it down.

aK13 · #3 06-16-2005, 06:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How did you get to reraise the turn in hand 1, convertor messup?

I don't fold the turn in hand 2 unless I have a good read villain would only do this with a high pocket pair. Even if he has a range of TT-AA and AK you should call it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fixed Hand 1. Should make a little more sense now.

Hand 2 -- His tight image scared me when he limp-capped, and combined with what I read earlier in the limp-reraise threads (TAGs 95% of the time have AA/KK when doing so), and also SB behind me possibly ready to donk-check/raise leaned me towards a fold.

Iq75 · #4 06-16-2005, 07:29 AM

Hand 1:

Flop:
If you call you are giving UTG+1 1:7, if raise 1:5 and that is not so big of a difference in pot odds. MP3 being the preflop raiser and flopbettor is prob. Not going to fold either way. So I think that you should not 3-bet to get players out. For value? The Flop is a rainbow, so MP2 and CO are bound to have something. There are 3-4 players paying, but I don’t think that you are ahead of 25-33% of time so I’m just calling (I think that you are ahead enough of times to call whit some outs).

Turn:
I like it. You caught the heart, CO is shortstacked and 2 more players still paying or folding (both good).

Hand 2:
I don’t think that anybody got a piece of that flop or turn. If we assume that MP2 being a tight player caps only whit AA, KK, QQ and Aks:
AA 6 times, KK 6 times, QQ 6 times, AKS 4 times, so there would be a 4/22, 1:4,5 that he has AKs. You are getting 1:5 to 1:6 effective odds if sb only folds/calls/checks. If he check and raises its something like 1:3,5. It is possible that, when SB all of a sudden checks he might bet the turn whit AKs, but because it is possible that he would not i would lean to folding (It’s a tough one though and i would have liked to have a better read).

Duerig · #5 06-16-2005, 08:49 AM

Hand 1: I would check raise the turn. CO is going to go all in and with your position you can face the field with calling 2 cold.

Hand 2: I'm tempted to raise the turn. But I never know how to play against a LRR.

Fantam · #6 06-16-2005, 09:05 AM

Hand #1.

I would also have raised the turn.

When MP3 bets the flop, I estimate his likely range of hands to be AA-TT and AK. You are ahead of 50% of these combinations (QQ-TT), and CO and UTG are probably contributing dead money to your flop raise.

When MP3 doesnt cap the flop and only calls your turn bet, I suspect that you currently have the best hand. Also you have picked up a draw to the 2nd nut flush.

As you think UTG is a calling station, I think your turn raise is probably for value. And if MP3 has been playing a better hand than yours passively, you still have the possibility of making your flush draw to win.

Hand #2.

I agree with your turn fold.

I think SB may have raised PF with possibly AK or AA-TT. MP2's limp/cap suggests that he is likely to have either AA or KK if he is a very tight player.

SB's flop bet could still mean either overcards or a high pocket pair. Bearing in mind that MP2 limp/capped PF, he might have called the flop bet with the intention of 3-betting/capping a raise/3-bet from you and SB.

SB checking the turn suggests to me that he had overcards. MP2's turn bet suggests to me that he has a higher pair than you, and that he is betting out after possibly missing his tricky flop raise.

If you called the turn bet, you would probably have to call another bet on the river. That gave you reverse implied odds to call of ~ 10:2 or 5:1 (assuming that SB then folded).

Overall I suspect that you would have lost this hand to a higher pocket pair more than ~17% of the time that you would have needed to win, to make a call profitable.

Rev. Good Will · #7 06-16-2005, 10:06 AM

1 - I think its good. CO just seems to be stack dumping, although I just kinda wish MP3 would just go away, it smells kinda like a passive AK...

2 - The limp-cap scares me, that combined with your read makes me want to muck this hand too.

milesdyson · #8 06-16-2005, 10:20 AM

hand 2 postflop looks pretty damn good. I just hope MP3 doesn't have a scared AK. He could have KJ/KQ/QQ/JJ possibly, though. I really want UTG+1 to call the 3-bet and MP3 to fold, usually (because if he calls 2 more here, or 1.5 or whatever it is, i'm scared).

hand 2 i'm not sure. if you raise and are 3-bet, you can fold. otherwise you can take a free showdown. then again, he limp capped preflop, but maybe he just did that because it got 3-bet. I don't know, i would typically raise here, fold to a 3-bet, and check through the river.

jrz1972 · #9 06-16-2005, 10:21 AM

Hand 1: Looks fine. When a LAG gets short-stacked and begins spewing, it's hard to take any of his bets seriously. You might as well try to build a side pot with TPGK + flush draw.

Hand 2: The LRR from a tigh player usually means AA or KK, but sometimes people step out of line. I probably raise the flop with my overpair and see what happens. If I get 3-bet, I would feel pretty confident dumping my hand right then and there. I really hate the line you adopted (call the flop and fold the turn). You need to either play back at SB for information, call down, or fold the flop. You don't have anywhere near the right odds to just call a flop bet and fold the turn UI.