Flop a joint, river pairs board - Page 2

Ghazban · #11 10-21-2005, 12:50 PM

I check/call this on Party but am not sure on Stars. Stars tends to be more weak/tight and doesn't have as many desperation bluffs on the river from missed draws. I'm comfortable check/calling an all-in overbet on Party because it'll be missed hearts a huge percentage of the time.

I don't see a huge number of hands that you are beating that will call on all streets (T9 is about the only reasonable one and it seems that hand would've raised at some point). If I check/call and lose to a boat (from a flopped set, I'd imagine as T6/96 seem unlikely to be limped UTG), I'll definitely make a note on the player as someone who will slowplay sets on draw-heavy boards. If I check and he checks behind with AT, that's another thing worth noting (passivity with TPTK on a draw-heavy board).

nuSFwck · #12 10-21-2005, 12:58 PM

there's no way i'm folding here. if villian is going to just call with a set on the flop and turn with a board full of draws, well, you'll get his money later.

i really think you're way ahead. if you check, it gives him the opportunity to bluff and you can just call him. but, if you go this route, you risk missing a value bet on the river.

i think the best way to play this is to keep firing. i really think villian is on a draw, and even if he raises your hand is good 90% of the time imo.

yes, check/calling allows you to pick up additional $$ from a bluff, but it really look like villian has top pair, and he'll likely call if you bet the river. it's not entirely certain he'll be the river with top pair, though.

there will be times when villian does have a set here, but given the passive way he played the hand, i feel very confident you are good here.

Leptyne · #13 10-21-2005, 01:05 PM

With a flush draw, a set, or a straight draw villain should be raising the flop for a free card. That makes it look more like top 2 pr or AT, but could still be some kind of donkish play.

With 4 players left to act on a board this coordinated I'm going to overbet the flop with $15. You would like to find a caller with a set or nut flush draw, or a draw to a better straight. Since there a lot of cards that will kill your action on the turn you need to try and build a pot here. When the turn blanks you need to fire the second barrell to take away the implied odds.

When the board pairs you're either WA or WB. I make a blocking bet here, which often looks like a monster "call me" bet or a bet inviting a raise.

#14 10-21-2005, 01:12 PM

I definitely like a value bet here. Whatever you think will get called by top pair or some sort of 2 pair. Maybe a 1/3 of the pot? If he raises, you'll have a tough decision unless it's only a small raise. However, it's tough to put him on set since he didn't raise the Flop or Turn with such a scary board. Unless you have a good read you probably have to call just about any amount.

PokerFink · #15 10-21-2005, 01:26 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($60.45)
Hero ($200)
UTG ($144.10)
MP ($85.15)
CO ($93.60)
Button ($31.35)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, CO calls $2, Button calls $2, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($10) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $9, UTG calls $9, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds.

Turn: ($28) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $22, UTG calls $22.

River: ($72) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $33, UTG raises to $111.1 (All-In), Hero calls $78.10.

Final Pot: $294.20

Thoughts?

EDIT: By the way, let me add it was my first hand at the table, so no read.

kurto · #16 10-21-2005, 01:58 PM

I like it. I feel like any set would have made a move early. I can't see someone under the gun have 9-6 or 10-6.

I can't help but think you're ahead here enough times to make this a call.

FreakDaddy · #17 10-21-2005, 02:11 PM

Just curious, do reads not matter in poker anymore? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] What range of hands will this guy limp in EP?

If I win tunnel it I say bet 1/3/fold. I mean, there isn't much this guy is calling with except perhaps JJ. If he's a bit aggresive and I'm not giving him credit for a set, I check/call hoping he'll bluff at the pot. Most likely you're beat on this board here though unless he's mega donk.

kurto · #18 10-21-2005, 02:21 PM

you don't think a set bets/raises anywhere before the river?

FreakDaddy · #19 10-21-2005, 02:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I check/call this on Party but am not sure on Stars. Stars tends to be more weak/tight and doesn't have as many desperation bluffs on the river from missed draws. I'm comfortable check/calling an all-in overbet on Party because it'll be missed hearts a huge percentage of the time.

I don't see a huge number of hands that you are beating that will call on all streets (T9 is about the only reasonable one and it seems that hand would've raised at some point). If I check/call and lose to a boat (from a flopped set, I'd imagine as T6/96 seem unlikely to be limped UTG), I'll definitely make a note on the player as someone who will slowplay sets on draw-heavy boards. If I check and he checks behind with AT, that's another thing worth noting (passivity with TPTK on a draw-heavy board).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a note is needed here about slowplaying a set, I think villian is pretty certain that hero isn't drawing, plus hero is giving himself incorrect odds so villian doesn't have to. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I agree with everything else you're saying here, and without a read I think the texture of this flop says you're beat most of the time. With a read, for instance, if we knew villian would chase with any two hearts, this becomes a different hand. On stars I don't see as many donks playing this badly though.

#20 10-21-2005, 02:24 PM

I would probably bet/call. Unless you think youre opponent will bet a busted flush draw if checked to. In that case, maybe check/call. I'm not folding. If he played his set or two pair like that, which seems unlikely, then so be it.