QQ in the BB, out of position, tough board.

nepenthe · #1 08-09-2004, 05:18 PM

No reads on this particular hand.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: nepenthe is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, nepenthe 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Standard 3-bet.

Flop: (13.33 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
nepenthe bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds.

Gah. With the preflop raiser (MP2) to act, should I bet out or check? If I check should I check-raise? If I bet, should I fold to a raise from MP2 (or anyone else) or call down? Thankfully MP2 folded!

Turn: (8.16 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
nepenthe bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

These calling stations just won't go away...wtf are they calling with.

River: (11.16 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
nepenthe checks....

I chickened out and checked, planning to call up to one bet. I wasn't sure whether to overcall if the situation presents itself, but my mind leaned towards yes. The pot was fairly large.

Comments appreciated.

Fnord · #2 08-09-2004, 06:06 PM

When the pot is somewhat big and all they do is check+call, how do you get away from a hand like this? Is your hand good often enough to even play after the flop?

TripleH68 · #3 08-09-2004, 06:50 PM

Hard to see them both drawing at a straight. What if you trapped them on the flop by going for a c-r on MP2? The worst that would happen is you could get to the turn for free...assuming you knew the callers were not going away.

Garland · #4 08-09-2004, 06:55 PM

With 3-callers on that board, I'd be prepared to check-call one bet, and fold the turn. Check-folding the flop may not be the worst option. You'd hate to spike a set at the same time as someone making broadway with J10.

Garland

spamuell · #5 08-09-2004, 07:25 PM

I would just check-fold the flop here. If you bet, you are extremely unlikely to win the pot right here and you almost certainly don't have the best hand now and do not have the odds to try to spike your queen. I know the pot is big but you're almost definitely behind, the only good thing about this flop is that it's two overcards so you can fold in peace rather than spewing chips because there's only one overcard and you're trying to understand how to apply SSH appropriately.

Victor · #6 08-09-2004, 07:39 PM

This is really tough. Maybe I am a weenie but I would give it up on the turn. With no draws there is very little chance you are ahead and an ace certainly wont fold and most kings will stay. However is there was a higher low card or a flush draw or more legitimate straight draw I would like this line. As it is I suppose q-10, qj and smaller pp will call till the river. Still I think it is likely that someone has Ax or Kx and arent goin anywhere. On the river, I would call a bet if the MP bet but I would certainly not overcall if UTG bet and MP called. Also, if MP is lag or maniac then consider a river checkraise to drive UTG out.

nepenthe · #7 08-09-2004, 07:41 PM

A checkfold on the flop seems much, much too weak. If checked to MP1 he could well bet out with 77 thinking his hand is best. I made the flop bet almost resigned to my fate and prepared to fold to a raise (or maybe, if I'm feeling skippy, see the turn for one SB). A lot depended on MP1's actions, and he folded.

So I bet the turn again. Both limpers called. At this point I was pretty much resigned to my fate that at least one of them probably had a K.

So I checked the river. Limper 1 checks. Limper 2...checks.

MHIG.

Guess what the limpers had. I found out later through hand histories.

Limper 1: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
Limper 2: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I love Party 3/6.

bsk1999 · #8 08-09-2004, 07:54 PM

I play it just like you, I bet until I get raised, then probably fold. Fearing the calling stations, I check the river as well.

spamuell · #9 08-09-2004, 08:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A checkfold on the flop seems much, much too weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. A little weak I will grant you but I don't think it warrants two "much"es. The problem is that when you are ahead, it's very difficult to maximise your profit on the turn and river because you're out of position and your opponents will probably just call down with most Ks and some As. When you're behind though, you're going to either lose at showdown if you get there without getting raised or bet and fold to a raise, neither of which are particularly desirable.

Mabye I'm entirely wrong though and check-folding is "much, much too weak". I'd be interested to see what others think.

sublime · #10 08-09-2004, 08:27 PM

I would probably bet out this flop also, and depending on the player fold to or call a raise, with a lean to calling a raise. (What type of player UTG+2 is matters a lot also)

If this is the line you choose to take on the flop and turn (bet/bet) you almost have to bet this river also.

You become more of an underdog by just checking/calling.