I am having trouble knowing what to do in this situation - Page 2

numeri · #11 08-31-2005, 12:19 PM

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I come out betting on this. I think I will know where I am by the reaction I get. As the pre-flop raiser, and a K on the flop, I think I'm getting most to fold.

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So you bet and get a caller or two. Where do you stand? (Note the read in the OP.)

FishAndChips · #12 08-31-2005, 12:22 PM

Having not bet the flop, I would consider raising the SB's bet on the turn-- if you think he'd bet out with any pair. You'll scare the pants off of anyone not holding at least a K with a good kicker. The turn was a rag. There is no flush draw and the straight is not too likely. Your preflop raise could make your check on the flop look like an attempted slowplay, representing something like AK, AA, KK. I'd have to gauge the players, but it's something to think about.

numeri · #13 08-31-2005, 12:24 PM

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Having not bet the flop, I would consider raising the SB's bet on the turn-- if you think he'd bet out with any pair. You'll scare the pants off of anyone not holding at least a K with a good kicker. The turn was a rag. There is no flush draw and the straight is not too likely. Your preflop raise could make your check on the flop look like an attempted slowplay, representing something like AK, AA, KK. I'd have to gauge the players, but it's something to think about.

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People are missing the original read. Against typical loose-passive players who check/call down, these plays are wasting money. Suppose the turn bettor has a 7. He'll simply call your raise and then check/call the river.

Disconnected · #14 08-31-2005, 12:27 PM

Tough spot. You don't know how tight or loose these guys are postflop yet, but then again they shouldn't know how passive or aggressive you are when you miss. The board is ragged, so I'd come out swinging on the flop, and be inclined to check/fold an unimproved turn against unknowns.

Taxmanrick · #15 08-31-2005, 12:28 PM

If I do get calls, I'd probably check/fold the turn UI.

FishAndChips · #16 08-31-2005, 12:41 PM

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Having not bet the flop, I would consider raising the SB's bet on the turn-- if you think he'd bet out with any pair. You'll scare the pants off of anyone not holding at least a K with a good kicker. The turn was a rag. There is no flush draw and the straight is not too likely. Your preflop raise could make your check on the flop look like an attempted slowplay, representing something like AK, AA, KK. I'd have to gauge the players, but it's something to think about.

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People are missing the original read. Against typical loose-passive players who check/call down, these plays are wasting money. Suppose the turn bettor has a 7. He'll simply call your raise and then check/call the river.

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Your analysis is too black and white. There are many passive games where agressive play works great. You assume the players are loose as well, which from what was originally posted, is not necessarily the case. Don't confuse passive with loose. I've played many passive games where turn raises get respect. If you never consider such plays in "passive" games, you're missing out.

numeri · #17 08-31-2005, 12:45 PM

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Your analysis is too black and white. There are many passive games where agressive play works great. You assume the players are loose as well, which from what was originally posted, is not necessarily the case. Don't confuse passive with loose. I've played many passive games where turn raises get respect. If you never consider such plays in "passive" games, have fun sucking at poker.

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Easy there, my friend. I meant no offense.

I may have misinterpreted the OP, but in my mind it sounds like players are calling down. With that in mind, I think a turn raise is reckless.

VoraciousReader · #18 08-31-2005, 01:00 PM

Full disclosure: I read the thread this before replying. I'm surprised I remembered how.

This is actually one of the situations where I am working on NOT auto-betting the flop after I raise. I think several factors here argue against a flop bet:

1. You have only 1 overcard to the flop, and there's a decent chance someone hit the high card. People like to play kings.

2. You are at a table full of loose passives, who are probably seeing at LEAST the turn.

3. You are betting into a field of 3.

4. You are out of position. I might fire a bet if I were acting last and all had checked.

When I bet a flop like this in this situation, it usually goes:

flop: I bet, all call.
turn: I bet, 2 call, 1 folds.
river: I check (or spew one last bet), others check or call.

One player has pair of 7s/pair of fives/or pair of kings with a 2 kicker. I lose. Third party has something random like 10h8d. This has actually been a big leak of mine. I think you played it well. But if I were at a tight table, or on the button, or the top card were a jack, I would play it differently.

johnc · #19 08-31-2005, 01:01 PM

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table is quite passive... a lot of check call till the river... really havent been on the table much so dont have any solid reads.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks.

Turn: (4 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero folds, UTG calls, MP folds.

River: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

I struggle with this situation, there are so many ppl still in the pot, my AQ doesnt look very likely to showdown a winner... what do you guys do in this situation? I know you have seen it often.

the ch on the flop may have been wrong, but I had seen this situation go bad for me soo much in the last 2 or 3 days that I just checked, gave up and logged off lol

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I'd bet this flop against a passive field. You're the pf raiser so your check on the flop screams "I missed" giving your passive opponents the courage to bet their low pairs or ugly king on the turn so I feel it's important to follow your aggression thru to the flop. The board is pretty ragged with only the only high card being the king. This many seeing the turn tells there are at least a couple chasing so a bet may either get some folds or slow them down on the turn. If they just call your flop bet I'm betting the turn as well if checked to, but I'm definately folding to any raises to my turn bet UI.

Aaron W. · #20 08-31-2005, 01:05 PM

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table is quite passive... a lot of check call till the river... really havent been on the table much so dont have any solid reads.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks.

Turn: (4 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero folds, UTG calls, MP folds.

River: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

I struggle with this situation, there are so many ppl still in the pot, my AQ doesnt look very likely to showdown a winner... what do you guys do in this situation? I know you have seen it often.

the ch on the flop may have been wrong, but I had seen this situation go bad for me soo much in the last 2 or 3 days that I just checked, gave up and logged off lol

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I bet the flop, but make myself ready to give up quickly. Since you don't have solid reads (early in the session), you want to know how villains play against aggression since you're going to be aggressive most of the time. I tend to lean towards aggression when I'm not sure, especially early in a session. I like looking like a LAG.