Sacking Up

sthief09 · #1 09-20-2005, 09:22 PM

I mine for only 4-6 handed games, so take this stats for what they're worth:
SB- 73/39/1.5
UTG- 24/18/3.8

both over a lot of hands. I'm assuming UTG notices that SB is a moron since they're in such close proximity and I've been at the table for over an hour and they were both there when I sat.

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, SB caps, 1 fold, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets

ggbman · #2 09-20-2005, 09:28 PM

Yeah generally folding will be better. You aren't good here all that often, and you have to invest way to much to find out. Basically, it always costs you 2.5bb to showdown the hand ASSUMING you have to put no money in on the turn.Yes UTG could be isolating the SB, but the SB could easily have an ace as could UTG. If the SB was the raiser, this would be much better IMO. (but still not as good as folding)

sthief09 · #3 09-20-2005, 09:33 PM

why can't I have the best hand if the maniac will cap a ton of hands and lead with all of them and the SB knows this? the SB is also hyper aggressive and I have a lot of hands on him so he must play a lot of SH, so he could be making a move here.

ggbman · #4 09-20-2005, 10:06 PM

You can have the best hand, i just dont think its very often. Also, it's very difficult for you to extract value from worse hands, but easier for better hands to extract value from you. These games are hyper aggressive i know, but many players lose EV b/c they think everyone is so FOS and they never have a hand. Here the action to me dictates that you are beat. I could be wrong, it happens a lot, just food for thought...(i never understood that saying)

sthief09 · #5 09-20-2005, 10:07 PM

scrub convinced that calling is best

if I don't get capped on the flop, then I'm going to have to lead the turn anyway since I want to avoid the river going bet-raise and me folding the best hand. also, if I check the turn behind I might be tempted to call a river bet. so one of the big reasons to 3-bet, to get to showdown cheaply, isn't that effective. also, I don't need to define my hand as much as I thought, since even if it goes 3-bet then cap behind me, I'm no good. also, there is value in keeping UTG in with a smaller pocket pair, since if I call he will probably pay off to the river (or keep betting).

TStoneMBD · #6 09-20-2005, 10:10 PM

i think its a fold. i dont think UTG should be crafty or crazy enough to raise 77-99 here, however its plausible he will raise JJ-QQ. still, Ax is just far more likely especially when you factor in combos. keep in mind that SB did cap preflop. he must hold something... Ax is a pretty normal holding even for a maniac when he caps preflop.

BoxTree · #7 09-20-2005, 10:28 PM

I've read the arguments for folding. I've read your interpretation of scrub's argument for calling.

It's closer than I first thought, but I still fold.

But I still [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] scrub.

ALL1N · #8 09-20-2005, 10:32 PM

Yeah I prefer call. I'd probably fold the turn if the SB 3-bet. Otherwise just call down.

stoxtrader · #9 09-21-2005, 10:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah generally folding will be better. You aren't good here all that often, and you have to invest way to much to find out. Basically, it always costs you 2.5bb to showdown the hand ASSUMING you have to put no money in on the turn.Yes UTG could be isolating the SB, but the SB could easily have an ace as could UTG. If the SB was the raiser, this would be much better IMO. (but still not as good as folding)

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeffage · #10 09-21-2005, 10:16 AM

Even morons are dealt hands sometimes. And the good player probably realizes it's likely you have an ace behind him and is raising into you anyway. I fold.

Jeff