80 pf question

[Dave Mac]

80-160 on UB I have ATo in the BB,
folded to a laggy button, gus hasen i think, who raises. sb 3 bets, sb is laggy on all streets the way ub players are, but prolly just a a bit better on all streets than most of the regs. so that is too say good, but too loose and agg.
so, i have ATo what is your standard move?
dave

[Steve Giufre]

If it was Hanson on the button, and the SB knew it was Hanson on the button (or at least had an idea of his opening standards) I dont think you can fold. He could really have any two there, and if the SB is aware of that, his three bet range is probably really wide, expecially if he is too aggro as it is. I'd say capping is better than calling, but Gus is never folding preflop here so that makes it closer. I like capping though.

Fold. ATo is not a good hand sandwhiched between two lags. Youre paying too much to see this flop and your hand will miss a significant amount of time or it will hit middle pair alot with the Ten, and you will have alot of tough postflop decisions. This is a very high variance play and whatever return you think you can muster by participating in this pot is not worth it in my opinion

[mike l.]

folding is wrong. i think there's a good argument for just calling and seeing how wild and stupid they can get on the flop when an A comes or even a T. let's just say it's the sort of situation i like to be in, but change it to an A7o or K9o and it's much less appealing.

there's one important thing you didnt mention and that's was it a full table or 5 handed or less or what?

[ QUOTE ]
folding is wrong. i think there's a good argument for just calling and seeing how wild and stupid they can get on the flop when an A comes or even a T. let's just say it's the sort of situation i like to be in, but change it to an A7o or K9o and it's much less appealing.

there's one important thing you didnt mention and that's was it a full table or 5 handed or less or what?

[/ QUOTE ]
The minute I saw your name on this post, I knew i was in trouble Lets just say I'm folding this preflop cuz I dont want to face the postflop challange. But I know you, Mike, play under these conditions all the time, so if anyone can handle this situation its you. That said, if folding is a mistake here it can only be a very small one at best which is why its easy for me to fold.

[Clarkmeister]

Call or cap, I'm inclined to cap. You have a freaking monster for the situation if those guys are as you say they are.

[mike l.]

"I'm folding this preflop cuz I dont want to face the postflop challange."

well then i hope you arent playing 80-160 online... i know im not and it's precisely because i dont want to face these sorts of challenges.

that said, i very seriously do not consider folding here to be a small mistake, i think it's a significant error if made repeatedly shorthanded against these uber aggro types. you cant let them run over your bb like that.

[ QUOTE ]
"I'm folding this preflop cuz I dont want to face the postflop challange."

well then i hope you arent playing 80-160 online... i know im not and it's precisely because i dont want to face these sorts of challenges.

that said, i very seriously do not consider folding here to be a small mistake, i think it's a significant error if made repeatedly shorthanded against these uber aggro types. you cant let them run over your bb like that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your points are valid, and no i dont play shorthanded, and i dont play 80-160 online. Maybe I dont even have a right to post my opinion in this thread. That said I am still convinced that if I folded ATo in this specific situation every single time for the rest of my life I would not be giving up much at all. I mean how many times am I going to be in the BB and a super agg player open raises on the button and an aggressive SB player 3 bets it, and I peak down to see ATo. Most of the time I'll have nothing and fold or ill have a hand I like and Ill cap or call. I am interested if others think that folding ATo in this spot is a big mistake. Although I am convince its not, my mind is still open.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
80-160 on UB I have ATo in the BB,
folded to a laggy button, gus hasen i think, who raises. sb 3 bets, sb is laggy on all streets the way ub players are, but prolly just a a bit better on all streets than most of the regs. so that is too say good, but too loose and agg.
so, i have ATo what is your standard move?
dave

[/ QUOTE ]

c'mon dave.

easiest fold ever.

and yes thats gus hansen (sp?). when i started playing the 80 game, gus made the games good. he was probably 30/20/2 and extremely over agressive. so easy to counter him. now he plays a very very solid 18/11/2.5 game. i have been extremely impressed at the rate at which he has learned proper limit play and strategy. ive seen him make near expert plays.

he is no longer laggy by any means. against many buttons, ATo is showdown bound HU. against him, not so much...anymore.

your read of him in this spot is off imo. of course, i could be wrong, but i play against him with the read above.

Barron

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Call or cap, I'm inclined to cap. You have a freaking monster for the situation if those guys are as you say they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

unfortunately, the read he provided, imo is wrong.

gus plays a great game of limit holdem now and is, if anything, too tight.

Barron