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#21
11-21-2005, 06:24 PM
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Re: Alito: \"abortion not a Constitutionally-protected right\"
Well actually you do have certain rights that might make it hard for the state to find out that you murdered someone else.
But the core answer lies in the facts that there is no debating whether in fact the other person exists and that the other person is not living off your body. It's not like I'm guilty of murder if I don't offer someone five bucks for lunch and they starve to death later in the afternoon. 
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#22
11-21-2005, 06:36 PM
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Re: Alito: \"abortion not a Constitutionally-protected right\"
[ QUOTE ]
Well actually you do have certain rights that might make it hard for the state to find out that you murdered someone else. [/ QUOTE ] This has little to do with whether I have a "right" to murder someone else. [ QUOTE ] But the core answer lies in the facts that there is no debating whether in fact the other person exists and that the other person is not living off your body. [/ QUOTE ] I don't follow. Is there much difference between a newborn being dependent on its mother for food and shelter and a fetus dependent on its mother for food and shelter? The only difference I see is that with a fetus, the mother is the only one capable of providing such things, while with a newborn others are also capable (but not responsible) for providing for such things. I also think it's obvious that that fetus exists as a seperate entity from its mother. It's not another internal organ. [ QUOTE ] It's not like I'm guilty of murder if I don't offer someone five bucks for lunch and they starve to death later in the afternoon. [/ QUOTE ] You would be guilty of neglect and murder if that someone was your child and you just stopped feeding them.
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#23
11-21-2005, 06:42 PM
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Re: Alito: \"abortion not a Constitutionally-protected right\"
There is a debate over whether or not a person exists during the first trimester.
Obviously, I can't change your mind about your views, but given that there is a debate, and that the only way the fetus can survive is inside the woman's body, the state is not does not have the right to force a woman to carry the fetus. As just about everybody recognizes, the further along in a pregnancy you go, the less obvious it is that there is debate. Question for you: do you believe that the fetus has a constitutional right to be protected from the woman, and if not, why not?
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#24
11-21-2005, 06:51 PM
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Re: Alito: \"abortion not a Constitutionally-protected right\"
[ QUOTE ]
given that there is a debate, and that the only way the fetus can survive is inside the woman's body, the state is not does not have the right to force a woman to carry the fetus. [/ QUOTE ] Because people disagree, the Constitution decides that one group rather than the other is right? Isn't that what we have legislatures for?
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#25
11-21-2005, 06:54 PM
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Re: Alito: \"abortion not a Constitutionally-protected right\"
[ QUOTE ]
Obviously, I can't change your mind about your views, but given that there is a debate, and that the only way the fetus can survive is inside the woman's body, the state is not does not have the right to force a woman to carry the fetus. [/ QUOTE ] I used this same argument in a previous thread about abortion where I was arguing against allowing abortion for rape/incest victims. It was that as I already consider a fetus a person, I believe that the woman carrying it is put in a position where she has no right to harm that fetus and that doing so is akin to murder, which the state has an interest in preventing. [ QUOTE ] Question for you: do you believe that the fetus has a constitutional right to be protected from the woman, and if not, why not? [/ QUOTE ] I think we all (even fetuses) have the right to not be unjustly killed. I think this is a natural right that is not enumerated in the constitution, but would fall under the 9th amendment (as well as a reason why the Federalists believed a BoR would be a bad idea).
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#26
11-21-2005, 07:00 PM
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Re: Alito: \"abortion not a Constitutionally-protected right\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] given that there is a debate, and that the only way the fetus can survive is inside the woman's body, the state is not does not have the right to force a woman to carry the fetus. [/ QUOTE ] Because people disagree, the Constitution decides that one group rather than the other is right? Isn't that what we have legislatures for? [/ QUOTE ] So if a majority of people agree to do something, it's okay, no matter what it is?
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#27
11-21-2005, 07:01 PM
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Re: Alito: \"abortion not a Constitutionally-protected right\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Obviously, I can't change your mind about your views, but given that there is a debate, and that the only way the fetus can survive is inside the woman's body, the state is not does not have the right to force a woman to carry the fetus. [/ QUOTE ] I used this same argument in a previous thread about abortion where I was arguing against allowing abortion for rape/incest victims. It was that as I already consider a fetus a person, I believe that the woman carrying it is put in a position where she has no right to harm that fetus and that doing so is akin to murder, which the state has an interest in preventing. [ QUOTE ] Question for you: do you believe that the fetus has a constitutional right to be protected from the woman, and if not, why not? [/ QUOTE ] I think we all (even fetuses) have the right to not be unjustly killed. I think this is a natural right that is not enumerated in the constitution, but would fall under the 9th amendment (as well as a reason why the Federalists believed a BoR would be a bad idea). [/ QUOTE ] okay. well we just disagree, at least you seem to be consistent. not the end of the world.
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#28
11-21-2005, 07:05 PM
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Re: Alito: \"abortion not a Constitutionally-protected right\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] given that there is a debate, and that the only way the fetus can survive is inside the woman's body, the state is not does not have the right to force a woman to carry the fetus. [/ QUOTE ] Because people disagree, the Constitution decides that one group rather than the other is right? Isn't that what we have legislatures for? [/ QUOTE ] So if a majority of people agree to do something, it's okay, no matter what it is? [/ QUOTE ] Of course not. That's why we have a constitution; so the legislature works within a limited scope. But you don't think every disagreement we have should be sorted out in the Supreme Court, do you? [ QUOTE ] okay. well we just disagree, at least you seem to be consistent. not the end of the world. [/ QUOTE ] I try to be.
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#29
11-21-2005, 07:16 PM
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Re: Alito: \"abortion not a Constitutionally-protected right\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] given that there is a debate, and that the only way the fetus can survive is inside the woman's body, the state is not does not have the right to force a woman to carry the fetus. [/ QUOTE ] Because people disagree, the Constitution decides that one group rather than the other is right? Isn't that what we have legislatures for? [/ QUOTE ] So if a majority of people agree to do something, it's okay, no matter what it is? [/ QUOTE ] To quote Gary Coleman, "That's a very glib interpretation."
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#30
11-21-2005, 07:46 PM
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Re: Alito: \"abortion not a Constitutionally-protected right\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] given that there is a debate, and that the only way the fetus can survive is inside the woman's body, the state is not does not have the right to force a woman to carry the fetus. [/ QUOTE ] Because people disagree, the Constitution decides that one group rather than the other is right? Isn't that what we have legislatures for? [/ QUOTE ] So if a majority of people agree to do something, it's okay, no matter what it is? [/ QUOTE ] To quote Gary Coleman, "That's a very glib interpretation." [/ QUOTE ] How else could one interpret it? It seems like a very obvious case of being unconcerned with the prospects of a tyranny of the majority.
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