Commerce 400 NL - Flop Question

BoxTree · #1 12-09-2005, 04:29 AM

Commerce, 400 NL, 9-handed, 5/10 Blinds

Relevant stacks/reads:

Hero: $600
UTG+1: $700, Tight player preflop (VPIP ~20%), Good postflop. The kind of guy you want on your left and not in your pots.
Villain: $800, Very tight preflop (but not quite a rock...maybe VPIP in the high teens), above average postflop. The kind of guy you'd love to flop a set against when he's holding aces (he'd pay you off).

Hero has Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG.

Hero limps, UTG+1 limps, Villain raises to $40, MP calls, CO calls, blinds fold, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop (5 players, $215): K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Villain bets $40, MP folds, CO folds, Hero...?

My gut says, "Make it $200 and be completely prepared to call a push by Villain." But I'm also wondering if a call is correct. I'm not sure what I'd do if UTG+1 decided to get involved.

B1GF1SHY · #2 12-09-2005, 04:57 AM

Villians bet of $40 into $215 makes him look very weak. You said he plays above average postflop, why is he betting so small then?

If you were in position you could call and see the turn pretty cheaply. I don't think you should raise to $200 here because you're out of position and you will only have $360 left, pretty much committing yourself. There is $255 in the pot already, have you considered going all-in instead of raising to 200? If not the just call and see what develops on the turn.

pokerjoker · #3 12-09-2005, 05:00 AM

raising to $200 here has the exact same effect (baring psychological ones) as pushing here. Betting 1/5 pot into five people looks A LOT like a he is trying to get u to push here. I just call. The Q or J may not be outs for u here also.

Big_Jim · #4 12-09-2005, 05:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My gut says, "Make it $200 and be completely prepared to call a push by Villain."

[/ QUOTE ]

You have QJs.... UTG... in a 9 handed cash game... just open fold PF.

pokerjoker · #5 12-09-2005, 05:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
raising to $200 here has the exact same effect (baring psychological ones) as pushing here. Betting 1/5 pot into five people looks A LOT like a he is trying to get u to push here. I just call. The Q or J may not be outs for u here also.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't see the deep stacks when I said $200 is same as pushing..200 is just very close to pushing....Dammit I think I need to pay a bit mroe attention to detail...anyway...just call.

AllIn3High · #6 12-09-2005, 09:57 AM

How do you interpret his $40 bet? Is this AcA / KK / JJ looking for action or is it AQo hoping to steal?

Anyway, raising is terrible here, if he pushes you have to call and race for all your chips (or be crushed when he has a set). If he just calls your raise you're playing a $500 pot w/ $300 behind and have to push a blank turn w/o an advantage.

Folding is ofcourse out of the question.

.....Which leaves - calling, he's giving you a great price, and if his $40 bet really meant weakness you can pick up the pot on the turn by firering a half pot bet.

BoxTree · #7 12-09-2005, 10:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My gut says, "Make it $200 and be completely prepared to call a push by Villain."

[/ QUOTE ]

You have QJs.... UTG... in a 9 handed cash game... just open fold PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hrm...admittedly, I should probably wait until I have more experience before I start playing a hand like QJs UTG. But I imagine that a more experienced player at a relatively easy game like Commerce 400 NL would be able to play QJs UTG profitably, yes?

As for everyone else's comments, yes, calling may be best. But I wonder how the presence of the UTG+1 (sandwiched between me and Villain) affects this hand.

AllIn3High · #8 12-09-2005, 10:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Hrm...admittedly, I should probably wait until I have more experience before I start playing a hand like QJs UTG. But I imagine that a more experienced player at a relatively easy game like Commerce 400 NL would be able to play QJs UTG profitably, yes?

[/ QUOTE ]
dunno tbh, since the stack are fairly shallow i think i'd rely more on big cards and pairs rather than medium-ish drwaing hands. QJs is probably borderline.

[ QUOTE ]

As for everyone else's comments, yes, calling may be best. But I wonder how the presence of the UTG+1 (sandwiched between me and Villain) affects this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, since you're not calling off too much of your stack it doesn't affect you that much, the only hand you really don't want him having is A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]X[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], i wouldn't be too scared if he calls tho because almost any draw (including 2 pair draws) are coming along here.

If he raises you have the befinit of seeing if the preflop raiser was feigning weakness and can safely fold if he wants to play.

98romaine · #9 12-09-2005, 10:52 AM

Playing this hand UTG in a deeper stacked game is going to create some difficult decisions for you on later streets but as you played it I think I would just call villians flop bet and see what develops on the turn. You are OOP drawing to the 2nd nut flush and have 2nd pr on the board. Take the cheap turn card for $40 and see what happens on the turn. Last thing I would do is push.

BoxTree · #10 12-09-2005, 11:06 AM

My itchy trigger finger was suddenly injected with some sort of lead-based compound that prevented me from lifting more than 8 yellow chips from my stack.

So...I called. And the hand continued:

Hero calls $40, UTG+1 calls $40.

Turn (3 players, $335): 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Villain bets $200, Hero...?