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#1
11-22-2005, 03:02 AM
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Calling an all in with overcards plus the nut flush draw... bad?
Villain has a VPIP of 55
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx UTG ($67.40) MP ($198.30) Hero ($458.10) SB ($183.05) BB ($590.75) Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1. <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $6, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>. Flop: ($15) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $13</font>, UTG pushes, Hero calls $48. 
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#2
11-22-2005, 03:11 AM
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Re: Calling an all in with overcards plus the nut flush draw... bad?
First of all, what range of hands did you put him on? TP/2 pair/set? You have 17 outs so against a 10 your either even money or a little bit infront unless he's holding A10 and i can really see any other possible hands. If he's holding a set such as 5-5 you only have your flush outs - 10d so 8 outs. Im folding this as it looks like im just drawing to my 8 flush outs.
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#4
11-22-2005, 03:25 AM
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Re: Calling an all in with overcards plus the nut flush draw... bad?
[ QUOTE ]
Villain has a VPIP of 55 Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx UTG ($67.40) MP ($198.30) Hero ($458.10) SB ($183.05) BB ($590.75) Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1. <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $6, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>. Flop: ($15) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $13</font>, UTG pushes, Hero calls $48. [/ QUOTE ] Giving only Villain's VP$IP without his PFR% is sorta leaving out a lot. We know that he is loose, but does he raise with trash and how aggressive is he postflop. All of these would be useful, but in a vacuum, here's how it breaks down. You only need to be good 35% of the time to call here ($48 to win $89), which exactly matches your 9 outs twice nut flush draw pot equity. Combine that with the fact that you're Ace outs might be live (and your back door wheel draw) and you have a marginally profitable call. But I agree that you prolly should have just pushed yourself given his stack size.
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#5
11-22-2005, 12:41 PM
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Re: Calling an all in with overcards plus the nut flush draw... bad?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Villain has a VPIP of 55 Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx UTG ($67.40) MP ($198.30) Hero ($458.10) SB ($183.05) BB ($590.75) Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1. <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $6, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>. Flop: ($15) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $13</font>, UTG pushes, Hero calls $48. [/ QUOTE ] Giving only Villain's VP$IP without his PFR% is sorta leaving out a lot. We know that he is loose, but does he raise with trash and how aggressive is he postflop. All of these would be useful, but in a vacuum, here's how it breaks down. You only need to be good 35% of the time to call here ($48 to win $89), which exactly matches your 9 outs twice nut flush draw pot equity. Combine that with the fact that you're Ace outs might be live (and your back door wheel draw) and you have a marginally profitable call. But I agree that you prolly should have just pushed yourself given his stack size. [/ QUOTE ] Great post! Yeah I think I should have just open pushed. I was going to push overtop if he min-raised me (which I find these shorty stacks like to do, a lot).
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#7
11-22-2005, 12:51 PM
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Re: Calling an all in with overcards plus the nut flush draw... bad?
calling makes sense... especially if you think your overs are live, you have 2 back door draws, but a little more info on villian would be nice... I personally bet 1/2 his stack... and put him to a decision, then it is also an easy call
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#8
11-22-2005, 12:56 PM
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Re: Calling an all in with overcards plus the nut flush draw... bad?
[ QUOTE ]
I tend to check this flop or just push myself given his stack size. [/ QUOTE ] I cannot believe betting 4xPot in position when checked to with a flush draw is optimal.
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#9
11-22-2005, 12:59 PM
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Re: Calling an all in with overcards plus the nut flush draw... bad?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I tend to check this flop or just push myself given his stack size. [/ QUOTE ] I cannot believe betting 4xPot in position when checked to with a flush draw is optimal. [/ QUOTE ] Do you check behind on the flop and take the free card, Ghaz?
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#10
11-22-2005, 12:59 PM
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Re: Calling an all in with overcards plus the nut flush draw... bad?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I tend to check this flop or just push myself given his stack size. [/ QUOTE ] I cannot believe betting 4xPot in position when checked to with a flush draw is optimal. [/ QUOTE ] I don't do it often and its player dependent. I get huge action from making these type of moves at certain tables.
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