Horrible play and an expensive reminder

twang · #1 10-26-2005, 03:33 AM

Here's a hand from last night. I made two extremely newbish mistakes (and they probably cost me the final table):

A Don't put a big stack on the line with TPTK
B Don't put your opponent on a hand - put him on a range of hands

Very basic stuff, but I bet people misplay hands like this all the time, hence me posting this.

There's another obvious problem here too, let's see if you can spot it.

Stacks and pots are rounded off. UTG seems average.
Pacific 15 K Guaranteed. Blinds 500/1000. Hero is BB with 28,000.

Hero is dealt AQh.

Preflop:
UTG (stacksize 21,500) raises to 2,000. Player in early middle (stacksize 3,000) goes all-in. Hero calls. UTG calls and reraises another 2,500. Hero calls.

Flop (pot 14,500): Tc 4d Jd
Hero checks, UTG bets 5,000. Hero calls.

Turn (pot 24,500): Qs
Hero checks, UTG bets 10,000. Hero calls.

River (pot 44,500) blank.
Hero checks, UTG bets 500 (all-in), Hero calls.

Edit: fixed messed up HH

bdohaney · #2 10-26-2005, 03:38 AM

Yeah, you probably should have laid AQs down pre-flop there. You have the UTG showing strength opening the pot, a raise (though it is from a short stack, so can't give it too much credit) and then UTG showing MORE strength by raising again. I have been in VERY similar situations in the past, and when you have a player showing as much strength as the player is UTG, you are probably against either AA, KK, QQ, maybe JJ; AKs, AK, maybe a few lower pairs or AQs/AQ if he is a looser player.

twang · #3 10-26-2005, 04:12 AM

I'm not sure laying down AQs preflop here is good play. In my initial post I forgot to mention that this was close to the bubble and that the table was pretty rock-ish. Given UTGs weak preflop raise, the player all-in and the not too huge reraise from UTG, I think I should see the flop and take it from there.

The problem, as I see it, is my turn play. The most likely range of hands that villain has (given the table and his preflop actions) is AA-JJ and AK, all to which I am behind on the flop. AQ-AT is not entirely unlikely either and they are also pretty bad for me. Ok, the flop wasn't swell, but villain's bet laid me 4 to 1 to call to chase the gutshot straight.

IMO the turn play is horrible. The only hands I'm ahead of here is AJ,AT and some unlikely medium pair. Calling a half pot bet here is just terrible, but that bloody Q gave me tunnel vision... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Kirkrrr · #4 10-26-2005, 05:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure laying down AQs preflop here is good play.

[/ QUOTE ]

After the second raise from UTG, laying them down would've been the only play. What do you think he's re-raising with?

[ QUOTE ]
and the not too huge reraise from UTG

[/ QUOTE ]
That makes it even worse, not better. If he had a mediocre hand, he would've just pushed to shut you out and race against only one other player with your dead money in the middle. He didn't - he wants you in the hand. That's not good news for you.

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, the flop wasn't swell, but villain's bet laid me 4 to 1 to call to chase the gutshot straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

The flop was horrible. You're calling out of position chasing a gutshot with 3 outs, if not 1...

[ QUOTE ]
IMO the turn play is horrible. The only hands I'm ahead of here is AJ,AT and some unlikely medium pair. Calling a half pot bet here is just terrible, but that bloody Q gave me tunnel vision...

[/ QUOTE ]

If you somehow managed to get to the turn (which you should not have), it was definitely push or fold. Calling off your entire stack a chunk at a time is pretty ugly.

I am not trying to sound harsh, but there's way more problems I see in this hand than just the two you mention. I hope you understand that.

Kirk

twang · #5 10-26-2005, 05:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
After the second raise from UTG, laying them down would've been the only play. What do you think he's re-raising with?

[/ QUOTE ]
The pot gives me a bit over 3 to 1. I'm still not sure how folding here could be the only play.

[ QUOTE ]
The flop was horrible. You're calling out of position chasing a gutshot with 3 outs, if not 1...

[/ QUOTE ]
I think putting both the player all-in and UTG on kings is monsters under the bed. I don't know if I have 4, 3, 2 or 1 out here. But, yeah, I agree that I should have discounted at least one king. If I did that the pot (though big) would not even remotely have justified calling the flop bet.

[ QUOTE ]
I am not trying to sound harsh, but there's way more problems I see in this hand than just the two you mention. I hope you understand that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Harsh away.

#6 10-26-2005, 05:45 AM

I would have folded as soon as the player went all in pre flop. Most of the time the UTG player will reraise if you call. He's min raised which at this stage of a tournament shows more strength than usual. Most likely AA-QQ.
Every call from then on was incorrect, but the main problem wasn't dumping this before the flop. AQ is a great hand at this point IF no one else has got in a raise early.

DonHansen · #7 10-26-2005, 07:41 AM

You make the first mistake when you just call the all-in from the middle player. Never just call an all-in when there's a live player behind you - raise significantly to shut him out in order to get the all-in raiser heads up. If the initial raiser call your raise you're up against a premium hand and have to procede with real care.

You make the second mistake when you call UTGs bet on the flop. The bet is suspicously on the low side and gives you great odds (almost 4-1) so it looks like he wants you to call. He probably hit the flop with TT or JJ or holds QQ, KK, AA or maybe AK. In every case you're drawing dead. So fold.

My two cents.

D.

twang · #8 10-26-2005, 07:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You make the first mistake when you just call the all-in from the middle player. Never just call an all-in when there's a live player behind you - raise significantly to shut him out in order to get the all-in raiser heads up. If the initial raiser call your raise you're up against a premium hand and have to procede with real care.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, that was the other (third) obvious mistake I was referring to in my initial post. Man, I really trashed that hand.

zambonidrivr · #9 10-26-2005, 08:26 AM

your preflop action here is embarassing. learn how to play gap and you won't be posting these dumb comments.

sunek · #10 10-26-2005, 08:31 AM

Hi

It is a very interesting hand which is played really bad as you and the other posters points out. However learning from your own and others mistakes is what can make you a great player one day. I guess most players makes errors like that form time to time - I know I do [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. So thank you for sharing this hand with us - it takes a lot more courage to tell about bad play than clever play, which make a hand like yours more interesting i my opinion.

Regards

sunek