Do I call with low flush draw and these odds

[marcz908]

My Hand: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
The board: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

1 card to come, I know I am about a 4.2:1 dog to get another club. 360 in the pot, w people bet 100 (which is the min bet at this point). So I'm getting 5.6:1 pot odds.

My question, I am drawing to the lowest flush basically, and there are *4* clubs on the board, 2 other opponents. Arent the chances of another having a club, which is probably higher pretty good? Is this a good call, and do the pot odds dictate that its a good call?

[Sh0rtyoo7]

the answer is simply no. What pot odds would you be hoping to hit in this hand? Either low flush, trip 8's or a 2 pair? When you draw, you want to draw to the nuts, or a very large hand. In this instance all of your outs still dont win you the hand. It's very likely with 3 players still in the hand, that one of them was on a 2 card flush draw.

Now if the low flush was enough in your mind to win the pot, then you further have to think that the call would only have odds in its favour if one of the 2 players behind?? you made a call as well. (positioning plays a small role in this situation - the more info the better) The players behind you?? calling have much more information in the hand and STILL decides to play? A very weak player might come into the hand with an even smaller draw, but with players already in you would have to put them on a nut draw or an already made hand.

All in all, stuck in this situation you'll find you'll lose much more that you'll win; therefore, it's best to fold.

[Rosencrantz1]

I'm not sure you've explained all the important info in this case.

With 360 in the pot and 100 to you, the odds are 3.6:1 If you are saying that someone has bet 100 to you, then there is 460 in the pot and you are getting 4.6:1

The key piece of info we need here is how many people you are playing against and what your implied odds are. (It would help to know if it's Limit or NL or PL, for that matter). If you are second to act and the bet is 100 to you (giving you 4.6:1, as mentioned) and there are three to act after you and you suspect that at least 2 will call, then the pot is actually laying you 660:100 or 6.6:1 on your call, which you should make. The only thing to keep in mind is that your pot equity is poorer with more callers in this case because against five opponents you are more likely beaten by a higher flush.

If you are against a single opponent and you are therefore getting 4.6:1, I would say call. Your opponent could be on a range of hands with that board, including two pair, trip kings, trip something else or even a high pair. The few times he does have a higher club will hurt, but in the long run I think you're probably better off calling here.

[marcz908]

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With 360 in the pot and 100 to you, the odds are 3.6:1 If you are saying that someone has bet 100 to you, then there is 460 in the pot and you are getting 4.6:1


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Actually, 360 in the pot, I'm last to act with 2 people before me, one bets 100,the other person calls, so 360 + 100 + 100 = 560, and 100 for me to call.

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The key piece of info we need here is how many people you are playing against and what your implied odds are. (It would help to know if it's Limit or NL or PL, for that matter).


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It no limit, I'm not sure what my implied odds would be? Theres one card to come, I'm sure they will both put 100 bets in, I dont know if they'd call if I raise? Maybe they'd call if I only reraise 100?

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If you are against a single opponent and you are therefore getting 4.6:1, I would say call. Your opponent could be on a range of hands with that board, including two pair, trip kings, trip something else or even a high pair. The few times he does have a higher club will hurt, but in the long run I think you're probably better off calling here.

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I would think if I'm against one opponent, the chances of me faces a club are less, so yea, call, but if I'm against multiple opponents, then the pot is going to be a lot being, so call anyway, right?

[Rosencrantz1]

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I would think if I'm against one opponent, the chances of me faces a club are less, so yea, call, but if I'm against multiple opponents, then the pot is going to be a lot being, so call anyway, right?

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Makes sense to me. Someone with more experience might better be able to analyze the long-term EV on this...

[WhiteWolf]

Well, since it's no limit there is a lot more info that we would need to make a good decision. What are the reads on the opponents? How did the betting on the previous rounds go? How deep is your stack, and how deep are the opponents? What are their likely holdings? Is the original bettor in this hand to your right or your left?

This is a tough one. You are closing out the action (I'm assuming) for this round. Your implied odds from the flush draw are actually pretty low... anyone betting big or calling big bets on the river with a 4-flush on the board probably has you beat. If a club hits, you're actually hoping it's checked through to you. You may already be beat by someone with two clubs. If noone has a flush yet, you do have nice implied odds if you spike trips or two pair. If I'm last to act next round, the overlay of improving my mid pair + the fact that I'm closing this round pushes me to a call here. But I do not call just on the odds for drawing to a poor flush.