A question of Poker Ethics

So i'm playing in my weekly home game, where i am the strongest player and the villain and my friend is the second strongest, and pretty damn close to me. Tradionally, i tend to always get my money in with the best hand, and play a TAG style. ALso, in big hands i almost always take more then my fair share of time to table talk and make up my mind.

So we are playing 4 handed late in the nite and i decide to come in with 9-3s just to change gears. its the first junk hand i have limped all nite.

So the flop comes 3-3-9, i check, vill. checks.
turn is an Ace, i check, vill bets the pot for 2$, i call, and he looks as me suspiciously. I think he's got and Ace with a weak kicker.
The river brings the Case 3, giving me quads and him the i thinka full house. I check, he bets 6$ into the 4$ pot. i now know for sure he's got the boat.

I Pause, think, and start running threw his hands he might have outloud even though i'm sure he has an ACE. i Say, "well, you don't have a 3, cause you don't play 3's" (he's TAG too.) " and you don't have an ACE, cause you would have raised be4 the flop in postion" (though i know he limps bad kick ACES in this spot sometimes), what you have? a 9? a pocket pair? i think your on STONE COLD bluff". Then someone called time on me.

I was like "yes!" because it would make my decision look much more rash. I pause for another 30 seconds after questioning him, someone counts down from 10 to 1, i wait 5 more seconds, and push all in for about 30$ more. He calls instantly with the boat.

Here's the question of ethics. He is my friend and he said that this was just a 'friendly" game. And he was upset because i waited so long and pretended i was up to a big decision even though i was sitting on the nuts. I made him sweat it unneededly is what i think he was getting at.

But if there was anyone who could have layed down that hand there, it was him. He had even said to me last week "you know, you always seem to the your money in the pot with the best hand in big pots", he knew my style. But since i changed gears, and we were 4 handed, maybe it was just a pot that no one could have gotten away from no matter how i played the "acting" on the river. I felt that i lied and was "tricky", but pretty brilliant at the same time. The table shouted out "he's deserves the oscar" and "he slow rolled you man" at the same time. (even though i didnt slow roll). I was just trying to make sure that all the money went into the pot against my toughist villain. This is a friendly home game, but both of us always play to win and everyone knows that. Did i go too far or was it just a clever play?

1) This is for the HomeGame section of the forum
2) Any decent player after your whole oscar nominating performance would probably be horribly sick of calling becuase this usually means the nuts. Im not saying he could have laid down the second nuts to you but once you start playing against thinking opponents this type of table talk will only make there folds easier.
3)If you and your friend have been playing for a year then he knows table talk and acts like these are for for the good of your hand and not to make your opponent look stupid. If he pushed and you acted like this before calling his all-in (which is a slowroll) then there would be a problem in eithics, but it looks like to me your friend was more angered at your hand then your table talk.

I don't think you did anything wrong. Tell your friend to stop bitching, its all part of poker.

[umdpoker]

no reason to do that. you are just wasting time. i think it would be better to have played some extra hands instead of your hollywooding. he wasn't folding. he bet $6 into a $4 pot. he had a damn good hand. there are a few hands that beat him, but you played it like a scared ace til river. just pause 5 sec, then push. take his money. also, be careful about always talking a long time when you have a monster. its pretty easy to pick up on that in a live game.

[yvesaint]

buy him a beer and just tell him it was fate

[ QUOTE ]
no reason to do that. you are just wasting time. i think it would be better to have played some extra hands instead of your hollywooding. he wasn't folding. he bet $6 into a $4 pot. he had a damn good hand. there are a few hands that beat him, but you played it like a scared ace til river. just pause 5 sec, then push. take his money. also, be careful about always talking a long time when you have a monster. its pretty easy to pick up on that in a live game.

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Well i do believe their was a reason, conteneuity. I almost always take my time and table a bit in big hands, so i didn't want to set off a warning bell just by pushing all in quickly, and without a word. The thing that helped me is that i usually table talk when i am actually put to a real decision, and then threw in the same style of talk when i got a monster just to change it up. And it usually works.

But i do however, not talk to players i deem better then myself or when i just sit down to a table with strangers. But your right, it could get me into trouble sometimes no matter now good i am at it, everyone slips up sometimes. Thx for the post

[VarlosZ]

Blech. I don't think I'd complain if I was in your friend's spot, but I would be put off. It's a weekly small-stakes game. Going oveboard on the acting over $30 from your friend makes you seem like a World Poker Tour groupie who knows nothing about poker.

If it was a matter of hundreds of dollars or more (assuming you're not a millionare), then my opinion would be different. As it is, keeping the game friendly and moving is more important than making sure you milk a few more bucks out of the nuts.

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Blech. I don't think I'd complain if I was in your friend's spot, but I would be put off. It's a weekly small-stakes game. Going oveboard on the acting over $30 from your friend makes you seem like a World Poker Tour groupie who knows nothing about poker.

If it was a matter of hundreds of dollars or more (assuming you're not a millionare), then my opinion would be different. As it is, keeping the game friendly and moving is more important than making sure you milk a few more bucks out of the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, i am passionate about poker, and i always try to play my best. I make more online, but i play in this game 80% to better my live game, and 20% to hang out. I think that if i always try my best, thats what lets me improve my game that quickest i can, and thats my goal. Not just my game, but the game of players i play with that arent as good as me yet. But, maybe i am a lil over passionite, you may be right, i still have to think about it. But out of the people that become big time pro's, do they ever pull punchs and not try there best? would they have gotten to where they are today by doing that?

The fact of the matter is, if you put him on a A and thats what he had there was no way he was folding his hand anyways and you should know that. Theres no possibly way someone is laying down the second nuts in this case and putting you on a 3.

[Simplistic]

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Blech. I don't think I'd complain if I was in your friend's spot, but I would be put off. It's a weekly small-stakes game. Going oveboard on the acting over $30 from your friend makes you seem like a World Poker Tour groupie who knows nothing about poker.

If it was a matter of hundreds of dollars or more (assuming you're not a millionare), then my opinion would be different. As it is, keeping the game friendly and moving is more important than making sure you milk a few more bucks out of the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, i am passionate about poker, and i always try to play my best. I make more online, but i play in this game 80% to better my live game, and 20% to hang out. I think that if i always try my best, thats what lets me improve my game that quickest i can, and thats my goal. Not just my game, but the game of players i play with that arent as good as me yet. But, maybe i am a lil over passionite, you may be right, i still have to think about it. But out of the people that become big time pro's, do they ever pull punchs and not try there best? would they have gotten to where they are today by doing that?

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btw you'd get scolded at casino, i've been told to shut up by the dealer because its poor etiquette.