I say I'm sorry as I check-raise

[brettbrettr]

So I got into a situation tonight and I don't think I acted so horribly but another player was extremely unhappy.

Anyway, this is a live 10/20 half kill game. Its 6 handed and I pick up KK in the SB. The half-kill is mine.

The Cut off and I have played two hands recently. One the board paired jacks on the flop, and he got unlucky. I had AJ, he had some worse jack, I dont' know, he folded to my river bet after I 4 bet the turn. On another recent hand I sucked out with second pair to his top pair, having caught trips on the river. He didn't bet the turn so that's on him.

This has generally been a friendly game. Its aggressive, to be sure, but friendly nonetheless.

So, he opens for $30 in the CO. I make it $45 in the SB. He makes it $60, and I just call.

The flop comes Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

I lead. He raises. I 3-bet. He calls.

The turn is the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Given our history and the way he's played prior hands with me and others, I decide to check-call the turn, knowing he won't bet a hand like 99 or TT on the river if that's infact what he's holding. I'd have a hard time calling a river bet u/i, but the pot at this point is 7 BB's, and even discounting my King outs I think my tens are clean so I'm seeing the river.

Anyhoo, I check, he bets and I call.

The river is the T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and I check. He bets. I line up $60 in chips, saying "sorry" at the same time, knowing full well he woudln't bet less than an ace on the river.

He calls, mucks his AQ in disgust and walks away.

A few minutes later he comes back to the table saying "You don't say "sorry" and check-raise." I say, "I was."

Anyways, he wasn't happy. Perhaps I should have simply said nothing?

I mean, I know that in retrospect I should have said nothing. But I'm fairly new to live play and I'm curious how you guys deal with keeping the table friendly when something like this happens. I mean, I don't think his reaction would have changed much if I'd said nothing. He was stuck and slightly steaming. I don't know. Maybe I don't have a question. But if anyone has a simliar account of pissing of an agreeable player, I'd love to hear it.

[sweetjazz]

Maybe you check-raise and wait until after the hand to say "Sorry"?

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Sounds like he was probably just letting off a bit of steam. Eventually he'll take in a big pot or take a pot off of you and you can say something nice then I suppose.

[ QUOTE ]

Sounds like he was probably just letting off a bit of steam.

[/ QUOTE ]

The guy was just ticked because he lost money, or perhaps felt his ego was bruised. I wouldn't analyze this too much, cause you can't please everybody. When I'm at a table i just try to be myself and don't worry about pissing people off. I mean, really if somebody is getting pissed over something like this, they need to get the stick out of their ass.
Hopefully he'll just tilt against you next time you plan and you can clean up.

[PokerCad]

FWIW,,,Onegymrat hit on a very good point in that you should have just bet the river in many cases when the table is loose and friendly. When you are at a total FISH fry and your edge is big I often find it more profitable just to play basic good ABC poker without many of the tricks you might use versus tougher opponents, for some reason it doesn't bother them as much to lose with straight play as it does using the tricky plays so they are more willing to feed your chip stack, there is nothing worse than pissing off a huge fish and have them go to another table

[AngusThermopyle]

You check and then he bets.
As you are check-raising, you say "I'm sorry".
Sorry? If you were "sorry", you would bet out and let him fold.
Oh, no. You had to stick it to him for two bets (nothing wrong with that -- I might do it myself -- but not if "I'm sorry" ).

What you said: "Sorry"

What he heard: "Hey, schmuck. I got you. Now pay even more for being stupid enough to bet the river. Sorry I can't take even more of your money."

[A_K]

Saying sorry is worse than saying nothing, IMHO. Apologizing as you bet is less likely to elicit a call than saying nothing, I would think.

[private joker]

Similar thing happened to me, but I said 'sorry' after the hand was over. I had AQ, he had KQ, and the flop was KQx. We went 3 bets, then the turn was an A. When we showed down and I saw he was ahead on the flop, I said 'sorry.' And he flipped out and called me "smarmy" or a "smart-ass," can't remember which. I was being the opposite -- just apologetic and friendly because I never like being the d|ck at the poker tables.

Anyway, I think you're best off just saying nothing, because opponents who lose frustrating hands like that often think you're being sarcastic when you say 'sorry.' You're not, but you still check-raised him, so how sorry can you be? If you're going to say 'sorry' before the hand is over, just donk the river and apologize, don't check-raise. If you're going to check-raise, wait until the hand is over to apologize or don't apologize at all.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
You're not, but you still check-raised him, so how sorry can you be?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, after he'd sais "You can't say sorry and check-raise" the guy next to me said, "He has to check-raise." Check-raising is not some evil, evil thing and I am not sorry I played the river well. FWIW, I can be sorry and play a hand the way it should be played.

I totally understand your point, but, intellectually speaking, we shouldn't play sub-optimally because we like the guys we're playing with and we sucked out. He obv didn't see it that way, and most people wouldn't. But its a very real distinction.

I liked this part best...

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, I think you're best off just saying nothing, because opponents who lose frustrating hands like that often think you're being sarcastic when you say 'sorry.' You're not, but you still check-raised him, so how sorry can you be? If you're going to say 'sorry' before the hand is over, just donk the river and apologize, don't check-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

We all know the c/r is part of the game. We do it, we get it done to us. Leave it at that.

[TiK]

[ QUOTE ]

but you still check-raised him, so how sorry can you be? If you're going to say 'sorry' before the hand is over, just donk the river and apologize, don't check-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate apologizers in these situations. Especially when one sucks out and then apologizes. Honestly, if you're sorry, then give me back my [censored] money. If not, then you're not [censored] sorry.