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  #11  
Old 12-31-2005, 02:01 AM
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Default Re: AJo......Stage 1 of play along

I would call then reraise if the turn is a blank card to test his hand. If I get reraised back again, I'll call it down but I would feel like I'm beat
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  #12  
Old 12-31-2005, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: AJo......Stage 1 of play along

To all the people who want to wait for the turn, what are you putting SB on?
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  #13  
Old 12-31-2005, 02:20 PM
Dagger78 Dagger78 is offline
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Default Re: AJo......Stage 1 of play along

An unknown SB has a few hands here, some possiblities are AQ or AJ(less likely since you hold one of each), KT for the flopped straight, a set, or a flush draw.

AQ is a decent possibility
Flopped straight is also well within an average 2/4 players hand to call pre-flop in the sb, but most qould slowplay to the turn.

A set is unlikely since he probably would have 3-bet with QQ or AA and you hold an Ace and Jack.

A flush draw is also possible and people love to CR flush draws in mutli-way pots.

Considering all of this I'm STILL not sure what we should do here. I think flat calling the flop and raising a blank on the turn is correct here, if we get 3 bet on the turn by the SB that sucks but we'll have to call down.
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  #14  
Old 12-31-2005, 02:31 PM
Fudomyo Fudomyo is offline
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Default Re: AJo......Stage 1 of play along

I would raise while I was ahead. Someone is chasing the flush with all those callers in there. Ergo I wouldn't want to raise the turn if a diamond hit. If you are beat you'd also find out if someone 3 bets it.

Don't know if that's helpful, but that's what I'm thinking.
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  #15  
Old 12-31-2005, 02:46 PM
Dagger78 Dagger78 is offline
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Default Re: AJo......Stage 1 of play along

The SB will generally NOT lead the turn if hes on the flush draw and misses. If the SB bets out a diamond turn I think we're probably behind and should NOT raise. At this point he probably has the straight, set(still semi-unlikely IMHO) or the made flush.

I'm not worried about UTG+1 as he could have anything as you say, but I am also worried about MP2. If he's decent he needs some type of hand to be calling here, possibly KQs, a small flush draw, or maybe T9s for the openender. Is he the type to call a raise here pre-flop with a weak ace or suited connectors? or does he have reasonable pre-flop cold-calling standards?
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  #16  
Old 12-31-2005, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: AJo......Stage 1 of play along

Having only completed and being an unknown, I put him on a bad ace, QJ, or any two diamonds (including or not including the king). AQ is a possibly, but I don't give him credit for it by only completing.
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  #17  
Old 12-31-2005, 02:46 PM
Harv72b Harv72b is offline
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Default Re: AJo......Stage 1 of play along

I'm genuinely puzzled as to why anyone wouldn't 3-bet here?
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  #18  
Old 12-31-2005, 02:51 PM
TheHip41 TheHip41 is offline
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Default Re: AJo......Stage 1 of play along

[ QUOTE ]
SB is complete unknown. Only second hand at table.

UTG+1 is an absolute muppet. Massive donator and has reloaded twice. He's on my buddy list for ever.

MP2 has moved up to 2/4 recently (along with me). I used to play with him a lot at 1/2. He was always loose and pretty aggressive preflop. He's tightened up a little and overcompensated on preflop aggression. He was always very solid post flop and demonstrated ability to put moves on here and there. So, not a donk.



Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (11 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, <font color="green">Hero ???</font>,


This hand has two decisions with many important concepts (IMO).

[/ QUOTE ]

Just keep betting. SB probably has a flush + gutshot here more than he has AQ or a set.

I'd 3 bet, call a cap, raise a non diamond non K, T turn.
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  #19  
Old 12-31-2005, 02:52 PM
Dagger78 Dagger78 is offline
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Default Re: AJo......Stage 1 of play along

I'm not sure of this Harv, but how often to you think we need to be ahead to 3-bet here. Should we be 3-betting even if we think we might be behind here? The only hand the SD reasonably check-raises on this flop that we beat is a flush draw or possibly QJ.

I guess what I'm saying is we don't need to protect our hand against the people behind us if the small blind has us beat.

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  #20  
Old 12-31-2005, 03:08 PM
Harv72b Harv72b is offline
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Default Re: AJo......Stage 1 of play along

[ QUOTE ]
The only hand the SD reasonably check-raises on this flop that we beat is a flush draw or possibly QJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Because we have zero information on the SB, we can't say that. Even a somewhat reasonable player might c/r with AK, KQ/KJ (w/ K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]), or T9, in addition to the hands you mentioned. A poor player could c/r with AT or a weaker ace, a misplayed KK, KJ/QT/JT, or some horribly bad bluff attempt.

With the pot size so big, we are clearly continuing with this hand--with the exception of an unlikely AA, no matter what SB has if he's ahead of us, we have enough outs to continue when you factor in the backdoor draws (one to a chop with broadway on the board). There is therefore no reason to allow the other players to continue cheaply with hands which could improve to win the pot (i.e. KQ) or with cards which could take away our own outs (i.e. K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]). Plus, we have a rabid calling station to our right who will gladly call multiple bets unprofitably.

I'm not slowing down here unless SB caps the flop &amp; leads into me on the turn as well (and I don't improve on the turn).

And I seriously think SB is check/raising with a draw here at least as often as he is with a better made hand.
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