This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong

B Dids · #1 12-27-2005, 01:20 PM

Party 5/10 6 max.

I'm in the SB with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

loose passive limps UTG.

unnoteworthy but not good guy limps on the button.

I complete.

Solid seeming but mostly unknown BB checks.

Flop

8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet, BB calls, Button calls

Turn

6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet, BB calls, button folds.

River 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

What's my action?

#2 12-27-2005, 01:25 PM

I'd b/f. I think he calls down a J. If you check and call, I think you end up calling down a lot of losers.

peterchi · #3 12-27-2005, 01:31 PM

I think I'd have to check-call.

If we bet, our only hope is that he has a Jack. And I can't fold this so we'd lose 2 bets if he's got hearts or an 8.

And we chop with any K (except the unlikely KA-KJ)...

So I guess there's more combinations of us being behind than ahead. But we're not folding.

So yeah.

#4 12-27-2005, 01:35 PM

What do you see a passive player raising our river bet with? Or do you see him better a worse hand after we check the river?

#5 12-27-2005, 01:40 PM

A bet/fold for me. If he raises the river, we can safely fold this hand.

#6 12-27-2005, 01:44 PM

I am check-calling this river. Its possible he flopped a straight draw and called down, but he would fold that to a bet. You are splitting if he has a king. If he called down with bottom pair on the flop, you're screwed of course. So the only time you collect is when he is holding a jack. Now that I said all that, I bet-fold. I think check-folding is weak..And he is not going to bet that jack often on that board.

pokergrader · #7 12-27-2005, 01:45 PM

I think it is a check/call, but I expect to win this more than I lose it. I just dont see much value in betting the river.

However, against most 5/10 players this is a standard bet/fold, but you said BB seemed solid...

peterchi · #8 12-27-2005, 01:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What do you see a passive player raising our river bet with? Or do you see him better a worse hand after we check the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
We don't know that he's passive. Dids said BB is solid but mostly unknown.

If he's passive then I definitely like your line and reasoning.

And maybe I'm too rash with my observations but I think there's enough bluffing in this game that by default we can assume it's a possibility against an unknown. And this scary river card would be a fairly likely time for that. So I can't fold.

#9 12-27-2005, 01:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
We don't know that he's passive. Dids said BB is solid but mostly unknown.

[/ QUOTE ] I should learn to match the reads & players up correctly.

[ QUOTE ]

And maybe I'm too rash with my observations but I think there's enough bluffing in this game that by default we can assume it's a possibility against an unknown. And this scary river card would be a fairly likely time for that. So I can't fold.

[/ QUOTE ] If that's the case, then may swing to a check/call. However, I'm not sure what hands he was calling down with to make a bluff.

peterchi · #10 12-27-2005, 02:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If that's the case, then may swing to a check/call. However, I'm not sure what hands he was calling down with to make a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]
Could be QT or 9T, or A-high.

But I've almost been swayed to bet-fold, too [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I dunno.