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  #11  
Old 11-26-2005, 10:40 PM
Wynton Wynton is offline
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Default Re: QQ - Folding the flop

If you were in villain's spot with pocket Js or worse, wouldn't you occasionally be tempted to try to win the pot by firing a bet on the flop?

This is a hard spot against an unknown, and you're probably behind. But I think you should recognize that it is possible you're actually ahead in the hand.
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  #12  
Old 11-26-2005, 10:43 PM
Alobar Alobar is offline
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Default Re: QQ - Folding the flop

[ QUOTE ]
against a slow played flop like this? how often

[/ QUOTE ]

not sure what you mean by slow played flop. But there are plenty of situations where you still have the best hand. BB has TT or T9 and the other guy has QQ or JJ or AKh and the other guy as 98 (youve got outs against) and stuff. Not saying the fold is good or bad, but to assume you are behind to the point of needing a FH to win is a bit much I think.
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  #13  
Old 11-26-2005, 10:46 PM
milesdyson milesdyson is offline
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Default Re: QQ - Folding the flop

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
against a slow played flop like this? how often

[/ QUOTE ]

not sure what you mean by slow played flop. But there are plenty of situations where you still have the best hand. BB has TT or T9 and the other guy has QQ or JJ or AKh and the other guy as 98 (youve got outs against) and stuff. Not saying the fold is good or bad, but to assume you are behind to the point of needing a FH to win is a bit much I think.

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah that flop was not exactly slowplayed. i would have called here with the K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
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  #14  
Old 11-26-2005, 10:53 PM
cfjr2 cfjr2 is offline
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Default Re: QQ - Folding the flop

what i meant by slow played flop is MP called the bet then re-raised a raise. to me this means he knew he was going to get his action on the flop and decided to not wait to pop the turn with his 2p (or set)
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  #15  
Old 11-26-2005, 11:00 PM
imported_leader imported_leader is offline
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Location: Around Boston
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Default Re: QQ - Folding the flop

[ QUOTE ]
while we're on big pairs folding the flop - how's this?

i really don't know these guys. neither have been at the table long at all.

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, i fold at what will be 22.5:2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not folding that.
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  #16  
Old 11-27-2005, 02:02 AM
xLukex xLukex is offline
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 572
Default Re: QQ - Folding the flop

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
while we're on big pairs folding the flop - how's this?

i really don't know these guys. neither have been at the table long at all.

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, i fold at what will be 22.5:2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not folding that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, BB check-raising probably means JT. Not sure what UTG has here, but it could be aces, could be AK [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

I'm not saying I particularly love this fold, but it's definitely not bad.
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  #17  
Old 11-27-2005, 02:16 AM
Spicymoose Spicymoose is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 146
Default Re: QQ - Folding the flop

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
while we're on big pairs folding the flop - how's this?

i really don't know these guys. neither have been at the table long at all.

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, i fold at what will be 22.5:2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not folding that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, BB check-raising probably means JT. Not sure what UTG has here, but it could be aces, could be AK [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

I'm not saying I particularly love this fold, but it's definitely not bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the fold is bad. It could be one of the hands you mentioned, but it could also be A9s, TT, JJ, QQ, Ah7h, AhTh, AhJh, AhQh.
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  #18  
Old 11-27-2005, 03:07 AM
imported_leader imported_leader is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Around Boston
Posts: 510
Default Re: QQ - Folding the flop

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
while we're on big pairs folding the flop - how's this?

i really don't know these guys. neither have been at the table long at all.

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, i fold at what will be 22.5:2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not folding that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, BB check-raising probably means JT. Not sure what UTG has here, but it could be aces, could be AK [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

I'm not saying I particularly love this fold, but it's definitely not bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're OOP here, I could see a fold. However, you get to see the action before it gets to you on the turn. BB could easily have a 9 here and UTG could be capping QQ-TT.
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  #19  
Old 11-27-2005, 04:24 AM
milesdyson milesdyson is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 197
Default Re: QQ - Folding the flop

nah, bb doesn't easily have a 9 here. it's actually really rare that he has just a single pair (QQ/JJ/TT are really the most likely pair hands for him). most likely he has JT/99/88/77 or two pair. in this hand the turn was a Q and the river a K. he showed 65. the capper had JJ. i wasn't nearly as worried about the capper as i was the 3-bettor - he just made my odds worse to continue.
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  #20  
Old 11-27-2005, 05:29 AM
imported_leader imported_leader is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Around Boston
Posts: 510
Default Re: QQ - Folding the flop

[ QUOTE ]
he showed 65.

[/ QUOTE ]

OR he could be a total donk. As indicated by CC in the BB. I think he could easily have A9,K9,Q9,J9,T9 here. Those are frequent CC hands for donks.
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