Totally out of control - QQ - Page 3

sthief09 · #21 11-12-2005, 11:28 PM

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Ok, somehow I totally missed the gutshot. Don't ask me. I need to go back and recalc this now.

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fwiw i agree with you if we disregarded the gutter. with a pot this big and with an overpair you have to face the field with 2 cold at some point. i understnad calling the flop because its just futile to try to protect a hand in such a huge pot. but i think at the least he should jack the turn when the sb bets.

TheMetetron · #22 11-12-2005, 11:31 PM

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Ok, somehow I totally missed the gutshot. Don't ask me. I need to go back and recalc this now.

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Okay, crap we have to call. I hate life. At the least can we check/fold the river, or am I going to get killed for suggesting that?

Also, raise this somewhere please. Josh has a nice suggestion if you don't want to do so on the flop.

Spicymoose · #23 11-12-2005, 11:32 PM

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i understnad calling the flop because its just futile to try to protect a hand in such a huge pot

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Normally yes, but against the UTG that StellarWind described? I think often he will 3-bet a worse hand and help with the protection.

StellarWind · #24 11-13-2005, 02:51 AM

The idea behind the river bet is to use the board pairing to get paid in case I have a better hand than UTG. There is no way he can fold any pair or even AK for one bet in a 29 BB pot, especially since its pretty obvious that I should have A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

StellarWind · #25 11-13-2005, 03:02 AM

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i understnad calling the flop because its just futile to try to protect a hand in such a huge pot

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Normally yes, but against the UTG that StellarWind described? I think often he will 3-bet a worse hand and help with the protection.

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This is a very good point. Also it is possible that UTG might fold. Pushing out AK is probably too much to hope for and this was a key factor in my at-the-table decision to play for the value call-raise. But the pot is growing so large that even eliminating AJ or some lower ace would be huge.

My flop play is just an interesting mistake.

StellarWind · #26 11-13-2005, 03:22 AM

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but i think at the least he should jack the turn when the sb bets.

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This helps me how? There are already 17 BB in the pot before I act on the turn. The turn nine has created a three-straight and a second flush draw. What hand can I possibly force out?

Meanwhile it is very likely that UTG is as scared as I am and will not raise behind me if I just call. He can read donks too and even AA doesn't look very healthy right now. But SB is apparently stacking off so one of the most frequent results of raising the turn will be to pay two extra BB to take a longshot draw to the river.

The turn cap is only obvious in hindsight. That UTG would raise the turn was certainly possible but it wasn't especially likely.

Danenania · #27 11-13-2005, 03:28 AM

I like everything. I only wonder if you are ever good on the river. But if you must see a showdown then betting is the way to see one. This is how I would play it if at all unsure of UTG's credibility.

StellarWind · #28 11-13-2005, 03:44 AM

UTG called my river bet and mucked. This site does not disclose unshown hands.

SB showed Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MHIG.

TheMetetron · #29 11-13-2005, 03:56 AM

Edit: Erased due to my better judgement and resolution to not be an ass to people.

Victor · #30 11-13-2005, 04:02 AM

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UTG called my river bet and mucked. This site does not disclose unshown hands.

SB showed Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MHIG.

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