Totally out of control - QQ

[StellarWind]

5/10 6-max (6-handed)

UTG is 31/15 and really combative postflop. This is a small site where we play a lot of hands together and I've had some problems with him pushing me around.

Cutoff is a 53/25 total LAG.

SB is a typical 73/16 whose postflop play consists primarily of betting out when he can and calling when someone else gets there first.

Hero is BB with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

UTG raises, Cutoff coldcalls, SB coldcalls, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, all call.

Flop (16 SB): T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG raises, Cutoff calls, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG caps, all call.

I didn't take UTG's preflop cap too seriously because he likes to have the last word and when SB bet out my gut feeling was that UTG would autoraise. So I decided to go for the call-raise. But SB's 3-bet really scared me and things spiraled out of control. You can judge the rest of the hand for yourself.

Turn (16 BB): 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG raises, Cutoff folds, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG caps, SB calls all-in, Hero calls.

River (28 BB): T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players including 1 all-in)
So-called Hero finally bets, ...

[waffle]

Bump. I hate to see this thread fall off.

I have no idea what to do. Reading this HH has flummoxed me. I can only hope SB is going crazy because he is shortstacked. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[Spicymoose]

I really like the river bet. If he has AA or KK he is betting anyway, and so you you will get that money in, yet he is pretty unlikely to raise you given your action. Also, you may occasionally get him to actually fold his AA or KK, while being ahead of the SB. If this happens even once in a blue moon, you take down major profit. Only negative thing is that you lose money when he would of bet AK on the river, but I think it is extremely unlikely case.

If he raises your river bet, I think you can fold, even though the pot is ridiculously big. He just doesn't have JJ often enough (or does he?). Also, folding isn't so bad, because you may already be beat by SB.

As for the flop, I don't get why you try to get fancy. Just raise the flop. Your move does seem cool if it works, but I don't think he is raising overcards after a bet and call often enough. If you know specifically he will, I guess you are ok to do this, but I would rather just raise, and see what he does to get a better idea of where you are at.

I also think you can raise this turn. You are often a good portion of the time, and want to defend your hand in what is becoming a very large pot. You also have great equity with your overpair and gutshot.

[imported_leader]

Flop raise seems much better. There's no guarantee that UTG with going to raise overs here and AK/AQ/AJ make up a lot of his holdings. If you are going to go for the call-raise you need to execute it. i.e. cap

[climber]

I dont like all the calling. You build a big pot with a decent but vulnerable made hand. I think at some point here you need to start thinking about how to represent some of the strength of your hand and raise the SB's bet and face the UTG with two cold and see if that slows him down at all either SB or UTG could easily have AT or a nice club draw or an OESD and I feel that you are likely way ahead on the flop so I bet it like I own it until others actions tell me otherwise. Its already a good size pot and I want it so I raise the SB's flop bet.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
but I don't think he is raising overcards after a bet and call often enough. If you know specifically he will, I guess you are ok to do this, but I would rather just raise, and see what he does to get a better idea of where you are at.

[/ QUOTE ]
My gut feeling is that this UTG would raise with any hand. He doesn't stand for being pushed around and this cold-calling donkey is betting into his cap. My "obvious" overcards are another reason for him to play aggressively. Plus the very LAG cutoff sitting behind him is a great insurance policy in case UTG does just call.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]

My gut feeling is that this UTG would raise with any hand. He doesn't stand for being pushed around and this cold-calling donkey is betting into his cap. My "obvious" overcards are another reason for him to play aggressively. Plus the very LAG cutoff sitting behind him is a great insurance policy in case UTG does just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

It does sound like a good plan. What about the added benefit of when you raise, UTG might 3-bet with worse hands (protecting your hand), and you can feel free to cap?

Your plan is good for getting a huge pot when you have good equity, but isn't there something to be said for protecting your hand and not letting your opponents even see the turn? I think your plan would be better if you held something like TT, AA, or maybe even KK.

[rory]

did you try throwing the mouse and/or keyboard across the room at any point in the hand?

[TheMetetron]

At the very least you need to fold to a turn 3-bet.

I think you played this hand about as poorly as possible, however.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
At the very least you need to fold to a turn 3-bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

Um, pot is huge, and we have plenty of outs against what our opponents could possibly be holding when we are behind.

"SB is a typical 73/16 whose postflop play consists primarily of betting out when he can and calling when someone else gets there first."

Given this, and the fact that SB just called preflop, I think he could easily have T8, 88, TT. With all of these we have 6 outs. Also, SB is all in before the hand is up, and often players love to just simply pump with their draws when they reach close to all in. He could even have something such as J9, or worse.