Hmmm ATs Live Hand

[Shillx]

So it's Saturday night. That means I just got back from a (frustrating) session at Lucky Chances. I played just one hand in my last 2.5 hours there (blided off all my nights winnings). [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Anyway, let me set it up.

BB is a fairly tight (not as tight as me) old man. He isn't very good. UTG is a tight young woman (almost as tight as me). She looks like the type that will only raise AA/KK preflop. She isn't very good. The next 5 are the usual suspects. They are way to loose and play randomly. They love to live strattle and stuff like that. Button is tight (not as tight as me) and ins't very good. I'm a tricky player in the SB and have a rockish image. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Lucky Chances 3/6 (9 Handed)

Button post $3 blind (this gets dropped into the rake)

Superhero has A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the SB

UTG limps. 3 usual suspects limp. Button folds and Superhero raises. BB calls as do the rest.

Flop (11 SB): K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Superhero bets. BB and UTG call. One suspect calls. All others fold.

Turn (7 BB): 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Superhero bets. Only BB and UTG call.

River (10 BB): 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

<font color="blue">Superhero checks...</font>

How have I done so far? Who likes/hates my river play? Any other comments welcomed.

Brad

[NateDog]

Please don't tell me it was checked around. Anyone here aggressive enough to take a stab at it? If UTG is as tight as you read, she's only got QJ [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. BB's got a piece of it, maybe a weak K or 2 smaller [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

How'd I do?

[cold_cash]

I would like the river play more if one of the usual suspects was still in. Even so, I think it's safe to assume that either the BB or UTG has a King, an 8, or a smaller flush and will most likely bet. I seriously doubt either one of them puts you on the nut flush.

I would usually just bet out and hope to 3-bet. Usually players this tight are also passive. If this gets checked through it would serve you right. Heh.

I'd play the rest the same though.

[Catt]

[ QUOTE ]
I would like the river play more if one of the usual suspects was still in. Even so, I think it's safe to assume that either the BB or UTG has a King, an 8, or a smaller flush and will most likely bet. I seriously doubt either one of them puts you on the nut flush.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with all of the above.

And if the others didn't think of you as a tricky player before this hand, I suspect they will after this hand.

[DeathDonkey]

This never works for me. Whenever I want to checkraise they check right on through. I would have just bet. What's with your turn bet?

-DeathDonkey

[varmas11]

i'm an inexperienced player, and i don't question your skill or play, but is betting with the flush draw the correct play in this case? i like your raise preflop with ATs because it's pretty nasty and tricky and makes your opponents think a lot since you're in the SB. so when you bet on the flop which makes sense to me with the draw and get called all around. why is it correct to bet on the turn when the turn is another 8 with i believe 4 ppl in the hand? thought you didnt, i would be scared of being raised in a situation like that and then you're committing even more money to the pot. you may be pot committed if someone raises you and it's probably the right call but is it not risky too? i'm really not sure. i was just wondering if you could maybe clarify the reasons for you betting out the draw on the flop and turn. i like your check on the river. it's very tricky. however, i'm not so sure if it'll make you too much money in the long run. the tight player might have a kq or ka and too scared to bet and the usual suspect might just have a weak hand. i feel like if you bet, you at least get a call from the usual guy and the tight player with the king has a decent chance of calling. if you check, you could maximize the pot, but you also risk missing at least 1 call which is pretty money if you bet. i'm really not sure man. i actually might have checked in the spur of the moment for the huge deception. i know that my doubt about your flop and turn play is probably pretty wrong since i'm a barely decent player and the other great players on the forum agree with you. but i would also like to catch this train of thought so that i can improve my play. so if you could clarify, that'd be awesome.


take care,
saurabh

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
This never works for me. Whenever I want to checkraise they check right on through. I would have just bet. What's with your turn bet?

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting the turn is the probably the right play here. I've been playing really tight, so I don't expect a raise (even by something like KQ). If they don't have anything, they will almost surely fold to the turn bet. I'm getting 7:1 on the bet, and I am pretty confident that I will take it down 1 in 8 times here.

As for the river -- well they both called the turn so that means that they either have a king, an 8 or a flush draw (this is what I'm thinking). When I check the river, I am confident that they will bet these hands in a big pot.

Honestly I don't know if the river check is good. I know the results (for better or worse) and I don't want that to cloud my judgement. I feel like it is the right play given the opponents and the action but that is why I'm asking everyone.

Brad

[DeathDonkey]

Hi Brad,

I don't know, I don't think you get 3 folds (there are 3 opponents here right? 2 call and 1 folds?) 1 in 8 times at this limit with these type of opponents. But its not a huge problem as long as you don't get raised. One thing though is that if you check / call the turn it sets up a nice river check raise.

You described BB and UTG as tight and not very good. I tend to assume passivity and passive tight not very good players will irrationally fear the flush on the river and check their kings. If they are tight its hard to give them an 8 though I suppose trip 8s will bet but it wouldnt shock me to see like 87s checked through. I really think you have to hope for flush over flush and its just not that likely.

The last thing that no one has mentioned yet is this: you don't have the nuts. I would tend to feel more comfortable with my trickery were the board not paired. Not sure why that is but I think its because if I got fancy and somehow lost the hand I would feel like a real goober.

Anyway don't you ever sleep?
DeathDonkey

[Shillx]

Okay I'm going to bed.

Superhero checks, old man bets, young lady calls with AK [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Superhero check/raises. Both call. I never saw his hand...

Table goes [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] and MHIG.

[toss]

Looks like your read on the old man and young lady was accurate. I just hope the other players still gave you action after that advanced river C/R.