Getting away from middle set?

dirrtybear · #1 07-13-2005, 03:17 PM

Is there any way to get away from this hand?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed)
BB ($402.56)
UTG ($200)
MP ($268.45)
Button ($210.10)
Hero ($260.25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, MP calls $2, Button raises to $6, Hero (poster) calls $5, 1 fold, MP calls $4.

Flop: ($20) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($20) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $14, MP calls $14, Button calls $14.

River: ($62) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets 60, MP folds, Button Raises to $120, Hero reraises all-in $180.25, Button calls $70.10

Final Pot: $490.35

Results in white below: 
MP doesn't show.
Button has Ah As (three of a kind, aces).
Hero has Jd Jc (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins $50.15 from side pot. Button wins $440.20 from main pot.

Laomedon · #2 07-13-2005, 03:21 PM

Well the converter messed up the river action, but it looks like your slow play unintentionally saved you from losing a lot more money then you did. I really don't know why you're complaining because there's no chance, given the way the hand played out, that you're getting away from this on this board especially.

Added River Edit: Ok so now that I see the river action, it's still tough to fold, but at the same time that flop check is extraordinarily suspicious and then the minraise on the river screams monster. Still, there's little chance I have the cojones to fold. Though 0% of players play AK like this. I guess smaller sets might, but yeah, I would feel really sick when I get minraised like that on the river and make the crying call as opposed to pushing it in.

dirrtybear · #3 07-13-2005, 03:29 PM

I doctored up the river action manually (damn converter).

Ringo · #4 07-13-2005, 03:35 PM

Yea, your slow play saved you money in this situation. However, set over set is just one of those hands that I'm going to always lose my stack on, and do everything I can to get all in on the flop.

With that in mind, I would maybe lead into the preflop raiser. I assume you were planning to c/r this time. Most of the time, the preflop raiser is going to have some hand like Ak/Aq, and if you lead, those type of hands typically raise you, making it much harder to get away from when you move in.

In this case, he had an overset - "tel aviv", as they say in Israel. But every time, I'm leading here, with the intention of getting as much in on the flop as I can.

Hope that helps!

theblitz · #5 07-14-2005, 04:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"tel aviv"

[/ QUOTE ]
Ma haperush?
Af pa'am lo shamati et habitoi haze'.

(For those of you who don't know Hebrew - or can't undeerstand my transliteration, here is a translation:

What does that mean?
I have never heard that saying. )

Sephus · #6 07-13-2005, 03:40 PM

i think you played it OK. i would have just called the river minraise, because it's hard to put him on a hand you beat.

-Skeme- · #7 07-13-2005, 07:54 PM

How exactly did he lose less? He was stacked. Am I reading it wrong or what?

SmackinYaUp · #8 07-13-2005, 08:38 PM

Come on, this is a case of set over set. You should be getting stacked every time. The only thing I can say is that villain should have gotten your money before the river. Don't out think yourself everytime someone raises preflop and an ace flops while you have JJJ.

imported_anacardo · #9 07-13-2005, 08:58 PM

I would be leading into the raiser like it was going out of style on the flop, thus losing all my chips there.

Had I taken this line, however, I would have put Villain on a set of aces with something like 80% certainty by the river miniraise, and probably called, then puked on my keyboard over my inability to make the great laydown.

Incidentally: It is not great poker to be stacked 100% of the time by set over set. It is "minimally acceptable" poker. Being a "great" player would involve an increasingly higher percentage of your stack over an increasingly higher percentage of these situations, within reasonable limits.

I think I would know by the river raise. A better hand-reader would know by the turn overcall, I think.

SmackinYaUp · #10 07-13-2005, 09:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would be leading into the raiser like it was going out of style on the flop, thus losing all my chips there.

Had I taken this line, however, I would have put Villain on a set of aces with something like 80% certainty by the river miniraise, and probably called, then puked on my keyboard over my inability to make the great laydown.

Incidentally: It is not great poker to be stacked 100% of the time by set over set. It is "minimally acceptable" poker. Being a "great" player would involve an increasingly higher percentage of your stack over an increasingly higher percentage of these situations, within reasonable limits.

I think I would know by the river raise. A better hand-reader would know by the turn overcall, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont see a profitable fold here ever. This is lowstakes against inexperienced opponents who randomly make bad bets/raises and I see no reason to fold a set on this board.