Nits please read before posting

[joshman1204]

Lets clear up a few things before you post!

1) no betting system can change the HA of any given game. This includes martingale (doubling your bet)

2) Taking odds in craps does not change the HA!

3) If you ever use the saying, "with an infinte bankroll" in a argument then you are both wrong and a nit.

4) Roulette cannot be beat!

[flatline]

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Lets clear up a few things before you post!

1) no betting system can change the HA of any given game. This includes martingale (doubling your bet)

2) Taking odds in craps does not change the HA!

3) If you ever use the saying, "with an infinte bankroll" in a argument then you are both wrong and a nit.

4) Roulette cannot be beat!

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1)This is correct

2)You are an idiot. link

3)The fact that a phrase is used in an argument does not make the argument invalid.

4)There was a recent "Breaking Vegas" about a team that beat roulette by finding unbalanced wheels. Of course roulette cannot be beat by a betting system, but there may be other ways to beat it.

[Easy E]

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2) Taking odds in craps does not change the HA!



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2)You are an idiot. link


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Technically, he isn't. You aren't changing the house advantage; you are just diluting it with a larger and larger amount bet at true odds.

One might argue that you are helping the house by making larger odds wagers, since their risk of ruin comes much later than yours. Once you're wiped out by a bad run, you can't win it back with that diluted house edge in your "favor." You lose your money faster than you would, even with your "improved" HA.

[i]So, if you accuse someone of being an idiot and he's not....

[flatline]

The HA of the pass-line bet does not change, of course. The HA of the game as a whole (played optimally) does change- which is what I was talking about. If he said the HA of the pass-line bet does not change, you would be correct. However, he said the HA of craps does not change, which is incorrect.

[Easy E]

And yet the true dollar amount of the HA doesn't change... so you are being a nit.

[flatline]

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And yet the true dollar amount of the HA doesn't change... so you are being a nit.

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This is pointless. I suppose we are both correct, depending how you want to look at it. I believe that my way is far more reasonable, though.

[CORed]

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The HA of the pass-line bet does not change, of course. The HA of the game as a whole (played optimally) does change- which is what I was talking about. If he said the HA of the pass-line bet does not change, you would be correct. However, he said the HA of craps does not change, which is incorrect.

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The odds bet in craps is a 0 EV bet (assuming fair random dice and no ability of the shooter to affect the odds through skilled shooting, of course). Therefore, placing an odds bet does not change the HA in dollars. It does, however, reduce the HA in terms of the percentage of your total wager. In the long term, it increases your variance without changing your EV. Making a $5 pass line bet with $10 odds is better than putting $15 on the pass line, but the same, in terms of EV as making the $5 pass line bet without the odds bet.

[Double Down]

I'm going to clarify the definitions. House advantage is always described as a PERCENTAGE, not an amount of action. Yes, the HA does change with odds, but not the amount of money. If you place $10 on pass, you will lose 14 cents in the long run. if you place $100 odds behind it, you will still lose 14 cents long run, but 14 cents into $110 total action is a smaller percentage than 14 cents into $10. So the HA does change, but not the amount of money that is represents.
Capiche? (and am I spelling that right?)

[SheetWise]

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I'm going to clarify the definitions. House advantage is always described as a PERCENTAGE, not an amount of action.

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I think you mean "not a dollar amount".

[joshman1204]

Ok maybe the term House Expectation would be better suited to this than HA.

Anyway lets just agree to disagree on this point.