Level 2 JJ Hand (Party $11)

Raiser · #1 07-20-2005, 09:25 AM

Do you guys bet this flop? If so, how much?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

saw flop|saw showdown

BB (t765)
UTG (t815)
UTG+1 (t688)
MP1 (t967)
Hero (t730)
CO (t1485)
Button (t810)
SB (t1740)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, 1 fold, Hero raises to t100, 1 fold, Button calls t100, 1 fold, BB calls t70, UTG+1 calls t70.

Flop: (t415) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t415) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets t665 (All-In), UTG+1 folds, Hero folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: t1080

durron597 · #2 07-20-2005, 09:28 AM

What possible reason do you have to believe that BB has a 9.... well I suppose you didn't raise enough preflop given the limper but even so.

If you fold big PPs every time the board pairs or you flop 1 over you are losing value.

I would only consider checking this flop to induce a flop so I could happily get allin on the turn. On party $11s the stacks are just not deep enough to avoid getting allin on hands like this. Just push the flop. (Edit: and raise more preflop)

Raiser · #3 07-20-2005, 09:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
and raise more preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

How much? My standard raise for this level is t80. I raised more than that to account for the limper.

bluefeet · #4 07-20-2005, 09:32 AM

sounds academic maybe, but i would have raised to t75 PF. doubtful you're getting overcards to fold PF w/ the t100 anyway...you're basically eliminating rags. with the smaller raise, your flop pot is only t315. i would definately bet 2/3 on the flop. your check on the flop here makes it far too easy for the blind to represent a 9. could have something like AT too - sucks. the way this one played out, i would probably just lay it down, having not invested on the flop.

durron597 · #5 07-20-2005, 09:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]

How much? My standard raise for this level is t80. I raised more than that to account for the limper.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't consider raising less than 3xBB until 25/50. I would raise to t120 in this situation because of the limper.

mlagoo · #6 07-20-2005, 09:42 AM

Bet 200-250 on the flop, fold to a push.

Considering you checked the flop, call the turn push (looks like a weak ten to me).

I like the PF raise.

durron597 · #7 07-20-2005, 09:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet 200-250 on the flop, fold to a push.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are joking right? Look at the stack sizes again, that move is *horrible*. Betting 200 pot commits you.

mlagoo · #8 07-20-2005, 09:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet 200-250 on the flop, fold to a push.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are joking right? Look at the stack sizes again, that move is *horrible*. Betting 200 pot commits you.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're absolutely right. i looked at the t's as 1's. seemed like there were a lot of chips at this table. it's early.

given the stack sizes, what's the best way to get chips out of a ten, assuming one is in play, while still protecting your hand?

go fish · #9 07-20-2005, 10:06 AM

I only raise less than 3xBB in levels 1-3 when I have aces, or a really strong hand on the button with 1 or 2 limpers to that point, and then only occasionally. I think the amount of a preflop raise is very much dependent on the table. There are times when I would feel fine raising to 100 as you did, if I think these people will lay down. I don't want to see 3 other people in the hand while I'm holding JJ. Maybe it just so happens that these people you're playing are all pretty tight and they all have good hands, but 3 callers, no reraises...sheesh. I would not want to see that. This looks like a table where you need to be going 5xBB in the early levels, minimum.

I definitely would have bet at that flop, if only to isolate. Yeah, isolate the guy with A9, haha. I would hate to give up on this hand just because three people called. I probably would have done something stupid and kamikazed on the flop, betting enough to commit myself to it. But then again everyone probably would have laid down and I would have felt fine about it. On the other hand, a bet of around 100-150 might be enough to scare everyone but the guy with the T out of it.

The guy pushing on the turn is buying it. If he had a hand he would have milked it, surely. Did you even consider calling? The button checked the flop...I don't see many people with that much patience at the $11s...I don't think I would have been worried about him.

schwza · #10 07-20-2005, 10:27 AM

i'd make it 120 preflop and bet 250 on the flop. plan on getting a-i as a T is more likely than a 9.