fold the rockets on the river?

[btetreau]

This is a home game, 7-handed, all bought in for $10 and the blinds are .10/.20. The game is pot-limit. I am sitting on a little under $10.

The game is pretty loose, most players are average and it's pretty easy to read people post-flop - if someone folds the had nothing at all, if the call they hit at least a pair, if they raise they really like their hand, which could be TPWK. Pre-flop, everyone is usually either limping or folding, and most raises just double the BB to .40. This hand was the first hand of the night with multiple pre-flop raises.

Anyway, we've been playing for a few hours, and everyone is drinking beers but the game seems to be staying the same. However, nobody is doing anything too crazy and we haven't seen many big pots. At this point, a few folks say that this is their last hand (including the Dealer) so it is understood that the game is ending soon.

The table goes:

SB (bad, new to NLHE)
BB (decent, but stoned and playing passive)
UTG
UTG+1
HERO
CO (last hand)
Dealer (last hand)

The Dealer is pretty cagey, I think I'm one of if not the best player at the table and I'm most concerned with him. He plays tight pre-flop, and gets aggressive with both good hands and nothing at all. Classic TPA. The SB is new to NLHE, and is bad - he's a calling station and doesn't really understand the subtle aspects of the game at all. For example, if he has called the BB in MP and someone raises, he will always call every time.

I get dealt AA. Suits don't matter as there was no threat of a flush at any time. Dealer has Hero and SB covered.

SB posts .10
BB posts .20

PREFOLP:
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises to .70, CO calls, Dealer raises to 1.10, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 fold, Hero calls, CO calls

(Here, I made the mistake of not re-raising. I think it was because I was really confused what was going on, this was the first time there was this much PF action and it threw me for a loop)

FLOP: Q T 4 (pot is 5.50)

SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 2.50, CO folds, Dealer quickly calls, SB quickly calls, BB folds

TURN: Q T 4 9 (pot is 13.00)

SB bets 1.00, I raise to 2.00, Dealer quickly calls, SB quickly calls

(The reason for the small raise here is because I know that at this point they both have something and they both really like it. I've only got a pair and am pretty sure that I'll be beat)

RIVER: Q T 4 9 2 (pot is 19.00)

SB checks, Hero checks, Dealer pushes, SB calls the rest of his stack with zero hesitation, Hero.... ?

At this point, Hero has about 4.50 left. SB could have anything at all, from bottom pair to overs to a set to a straight. Dealer is smart and certainly has a hand by this point. The re-raise PF by Dealer told me he either had a pair or some paint.

This hand really bothered me, I had seen nothing like it all night, I think that my bet of 2.50 was the largest single bet up until that point. So, do you call and hope the 1-pair stands or do you fold and leave the night with 1/2 of your stack?

[swolfe]

first, he didn't make a legal raise. you raised $.50 to $.70...the legal minimum raise would be to $1.20.

second, you don't want to take a flop four-handed. heads-up, calling would be good, but here you have to make another raise to knock out the limp-callers. i'd make it $5 and push any flop.

bet more on the flop, full pot or a push (since a pot bet commits you). you might as well have checked with the half-pot bet...any draw will call that.

SB has KJ. Dealer probably has QQ.

[RiverFenix]

They both have better hands than you, fold thats a positive of being able to act after the allins.

If it was the last hand of the night I wouldve pushed pf (after his reraise) and said something along the lines of "last hand, lets gamble" or something like that.

[Mike Cuneo]

How can you be "confused"? Stop playing poker immediately. Or reraise preflop. Your choice.

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
How can you be "confused"? Stop playing poker immediately. Or reraise preflop. Your choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

[six_4off]

Yes, there were some key mistakes made in this hand.

The first was not re raising preflop. A more common mistake there is not re raising enough. I like something like a raise of 2.50 or even 3 for a number of reasons:

AA can get beat in a multiway pot, you need to thin the field rather than allow them in for a price smaller (.40) than what they all have in individually. (.70)

I also like a big raise because:

If every1 folds than you win all the money preflop. When pots get big, no point in getting sneaky, figure out how to take it quickly.

If 1 or all call you have the perfect amount left in your stack to push all in after the flop. (Talk about a big pot!)

This mistake cost you the pot!


Unfortunately after that, there isnt much to do to salvage it as it appears that one of your opponents is holding j/k. The no push on the ominous flop killed the odds of winning. 2.50 is a solid bet, but in loose home games, open ended str8 draws appear to be the nuts to some.

Another odd bet was your raise on the turn. A min raise is not enough there. Look at the size of the pot in comparison to the bet you laid. If for any reason a push wasn't mandatory on the flop, it is crucial here if, you think you have the best hand. As I said think one of them is holding k/j so this seems to be an all in or nothing play. All in if you think you got it, Fold if you don't.

I fold the river as well unless players will call all ins w/ 1 pair themselves. But this hand was lost in the early phases, not the river.

Best of luck and I will elaborate on some of these things if you need more help!

6/4

[btetreau]

Thanks, six - I appreciate the sincere response. I realized as I was writing up what happened - I got confused by all the unusual calls and just froze up! Next time, I'll just keep on pushing as much as I can PF and on the flop.

[btetreau]

Guys, thanks alot. That is exactly the kind of constructive criticism I was looking for - either reraise or quit poker, great idea.

Please, either say something intelligent or nothing at all.

[Mike Cuneo]

Yeah, something intelligent such as "wow 4 people called my raise I'M SO CONFUSED!!! HELP!!!" Does your game often get bogged down by people who don't know when to post their blinds? I'm guessing yes.

[btetreau]

unless i am mistaken, people are here for help, and to help other poker players out with their game. anyone who is perfect at poker and always knows what to do would not be posting on here in the small stakes section.

guess what? i'm not that great at poker - sometimes unusual play throws me off and i don't know what to do. i play small stakes because i get scared with my money. i make terrible calls and folds sometimes. and that's why i'm here, to get help and advice from others who have made it over the hurdles i am at.

with this hand, even typing out the action made me realize my mistakes, as did the polite responses i got. do you seriously think that your condescending response benefits anyone? so you pissed on me for what you think is a dumb post - does that help anybody? seriously, reevaluate why you post and please either post constructive thoughts or stick to OOT.

to everyone else, thank you all so much for what you do here, i've learned more reading this forum than any book/mentor/#ofhands could teach me.

end of thread, BT