Having Home Game Trouble!

[six_4off]

Alright I can't figure this out and need some severe help. I have been playing an extremle soft home game for about 8 months now. The stakes started out very small, and as the game grew, the action did as well. This home game consists of a ton of megadonks who don't care about poker, they are just there to have some fun. Needless to say I liked it and have shown good profit for the game. Here's the problem. We just switched from our normal PL Holdem cash game that generated about 25-40 dollar buyins typically. Well we just switched to a fixed limit 1/2 game, with the intent to raise it to a 2/4 game once all the fish got used to it. This happened about 1 month ago and the average buyin was now 40-60. Boy did I think the pot limit was soft. So more money, and players who are not used to limit and are fish to begin with. I liked where this was going. I will say that limit isn't my best game, but I am decent enough to show an profit playing 1/2. I liked the idea to of playing this game to hone my live limit skills, and at the same time figure the player's mistakes and roll over them once the 2/4 starts. This has not been the case. Below are regular player profiles and some hands to orient you. It's obvious that my play needs to change. I just need more help figuring it out.

COMMON MISTAKES AMONG ALL PLAYERS INCLUDE:

being a call station.

Piss poor hand selection

No concept of the advantage of position

Holding money as value at a table eg: looking at it as only 4$ to chase rather than 2 big bets.

O.K. Now the regulars profiles:

Nemo:

It is his house that we play at. He isn't terrible but he sure as hell ain't good. After going to a casino and playing (and losing) at 3/6 (the lowest limit that they offer) he thinks he's johny f*****g chan or something. Specific mistakes that he makes are limping w/ marginal hands and calling 1 raise almost every time. He also defends his BB with almost anything. Here's an example I was sb and it was folded to me. I look at j [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I raise in a steal attempt and get called, (by Nemo.) flop cames 2/3/7 rainbow. I bet he calls. Turn Q W/ no possible flush. I bet as he sees the turn a lot just to fold, as well as the q acting as a scare card. get called. I honestly put him on some BS straight draw. He raises w/ a 7 on flop all day, and if he turned a Q he raises as well. W/ the 2/3 being inconsequential thats all I can think. river j. I was confused but still value bet my hand after some deliberation, just to be raised. Confused I call and see the J/2 off of my opponent. I was sick.

Megadonk 3000:

This is a born winner. limps w/ at least 75% of the hands seen. and still has no common sense to fold after the pot has been 3 bet to his UTG limp. Somehow, Someway, this one takes so many pots, it makes me sick. A pure call station. I bluffed at him on every street and was called w/ an a/2 on the river. NO pair. To a 2+2er i say great read, this retard however... Lets just sat that i needed a cigarette after that hand.

Flounder:

Been playing w/ this one for a while. Got a great read on him in NL, but am still working out some kinks in his limit game. Very aggressive, but not as bad as other players and is one of the few people there who will fold to a raise. Still real loose and sometimes gets too aggressive (3 bets two early position raisers on a bluff) Bold, but not good. Here's an example hand. I am cutoff w/ A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] I raise to an unopened pot and get called by flounder. Flop comes q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] He opens, i raise, he three bets. I call. 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]on turn. I call his bet. 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]on river..he bets i call. I see his 7/9 off and am beat. (By the way, all these handss happened tonight alone.)

I also forgot to add that the game is typically 7-8 handed. I have tried switching my play up w/ all these donks and it just aint working. Sometimes my 2+2er friends play there and that helps to neutralize the insanity. But when every1 at the table is a fish like that, i feel genuinely lost from time to time. Is there anything that I can do?? Or is this just a bad run of cards? Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks all.

6 4

[chesspain]

Some words of advice:

1) Read Small Stakes Holdem by Miller,
2) Learn to appreciate that your profits come from the bad play of others.
3) Give up your sense of entitlement about potentially winning a hand simply because you started with the best hand or put in the first raise.
4) Don't try to bluff calling stations.
5) Ease up on the disrespectful way you talk about and view the play of your friends, since you don't play as well as you think you do.

[six_4off]

Thats a start. Any1 else?

[djoyce003]

depending on how many people are in this home game, you don't want to play super-tight and make everyone mad. But as long as these pots are multiway you should be playing lots of suited connectors, and suited aces and kings, things like that. Don't try to bluff calling stations, they clearly won't fold, just take the free cards they give you and use those to beat them sometime. Try to win big pots and lose small ones. This should be a fairly soft game to beat, but due to lots of multiway pots, your big offsuit hands won't win as often as you think they will because someone with 7 4 offsuit is going to suckout on your AK and beat your tptk with a raggedy two pair. It will happen some, just don't let it get you mad. You'll probably have some variance here, but you'll definitely win.

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been playing an extremle soft home game for about 8 months now.

Nemo:

He also defends his BB with almost anything. Here's an example I was sb and it was folded to me. I look at j [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I raise in a steal attempt and get called, (by Nemo.)

[/ QUOTE ]

So you know he will defend with anything, but you make a steal attempt with a hand that is about 50% against a random hand?

[ QUOTE ]
I was confused but still value bet my hand after some deliberation, just to be raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

You "value bet" your second pair/terrible kicker?

[ QUOTE ]


Megadonk 3000: A pure call station. I bluffed at him on every street

[/ QUOTE ]

Your plan to beat the calling station is to bluff at every street?

[ QUOTE ]


Flounder: I am cutoff w/ A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] I raise to an unopened pot and get called by flounder. Flop comes q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] He opens, i raise, he three bets. I call. 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]on turn. I call his bet. 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]on river..he bets i call. I see his 7/9 off and am beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

So he puts you on a steal from the cutoff, calls $2 with $7 in the pot knowing he can outplay you after the flop, and with the knowledge that you will pay him off due to his loose image.

You aren't as good as you think you are.

[Runner Runner]

You can kill games like this by just playing straightforward fit or fold poker: Value Bet, Value Bet, Value Bet!

[Kyo Souma II]

This forum really needs a sticky topic with the best advice for games like this. It's amazing how many times this question has been asked, and I suspect that players frustration with their inability to beat obviously inferior opponents.

1. Be patient.
2. Stay tight-agg vs all loose players without position.
3. Learn who you can value bet and who you can bluff.
4. Don't let lost pots weigh on you. Think about any mistakes you may have made and move on.
5. Home games are fun. Have a good time and your frustrations will dissipate.

[MookieBlaylock]

Lots of good advice given. The main thing (sorry to repeat it) is don't bluff a calling station. Bluffing doesn't work as well in small/limit stakes. Also, you are trying to make advanced moves and outplay these players, but you have already mentioned how unexperienced they are. Do you think they understand what you are doing? Probably not.

And since they are new to the game you need to factor in some beginers luck. More times than not the FNG at the table does very well he 1st few games. Having a new guy (or guys) win right off the bat isn't the worst thing that could happen. I mean, you don't want to crush guys right off the bat, you want to play them again and again. Just my 2 cents.

[BigRedAce]

[ QUOTE ]
Some words of advice:

1) Read Small Stakes Holdem by Miller,
[chop]


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd recommend Low Limit Hold'em by Lee Jones first, then Ed Miller's book. LLH is a bit simpler and, I think, more applicable to your home game.

And don't forget one of the key rules: Loose at at tight table and tight at a loose table.

I rarely get aggressive in the kind of game you're describing unless I *know* I have them whipped. No point if they'll never fold. Think about what outcome you want from a bet/raise. If you're not going to get that outcome (i.e. a fold or virtually guaranteed money), why do it?

[sully4321]

stop trying to bluff. period. it's hard enough to bluff fish in a NL game, but in limit, forget about it. no chance.