$109s - Weird 99 Hand

Unarmed · #1 07-19-2005, 06:56 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) converter

UTG (t1240)
UTG+1 (t955)
UTG+2 (t845)
MP1 (t960)
MP2 (t1000)
MP3 (t975)
Hero (t975)
Button (t945)
SB (t1465)
BB (t640)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t30, 2 folds, MP1 calls t30, 2 folds, Hero calls t30, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t150) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t150) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets t85, MP1 folds, Hero calls t85, SB folds, BB folds.

River: (t320) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets t100, Hero calls t100.

Final Pot: t520

Irieguy · #2 07-19-2005, 07:07 PM

Well played. Great example of a playing for value with position.

Irieguy

liucipher · #3 07-19-2005, 07:20 PM

Could you please elaborate on this?

Am I missing something? In an $11, I'd fold in a second because I'm guaranteed to be up against A3o or something.

If Hero was willing to call 100 on the river (which looks scary to me, being an overcard+flush), shouldn't he have just reraised 100 on the turn to see where he stood?

Irieguy · #4 07-19-2005, 07:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Could you please elaborate on this?

Am I missing something? In an $11, I'd fold in a second because I'm guaranteed to be up against A3o or something.

If Hero was willing to call 100 on the river (which looks scary to me, being an overcard+flush), shouldn't he have just reraised 100 on the turn to see where he stood?

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is small and the board makes it easy to interpret bet sizes. Because it was an unraised pot, UTG won't expect to be able to check-raise the flop with top pair or better, so he'll bet almost for sure if he has anything.

UTG's bet on the turn looks exactly like sombody who doesn't have much, but is afraid to make no money if he hits something... ie, a spade draw.

His river bet is a pretty clear "aw, [censored]" bet. Now, you're going to be wrong some of the time, but you rate to be ahead on every street here. That's what "playing for value" means... you bet or call when you rate to make money by doing so.

This isn't easy, and not everybody can tell the difference between why you should call this river bet with 99 and an Ace and flush on the board when you usually should have folded on the turn. But with the action, the bet sizes, and the pot size, the turn and river calls are both money makers.

Apathy makes a good point about the Q on the river being a bad card. But the opponent was kind enough to prove that it didn't help him with his bet size. If he had KQs, he would like the queen, but still be worried about an ace or club flush... so he would check. If the queen hit him hard, he would want to get at least as much money out of the pot as the hero had pot-committed himself for... so a bigger bet would usually be made.

Lastly, Luicipher's question about why Hero shouldn't just raise the turn demonstrates a common error: "raising to find out where you are." Raising into a board like that just allows your opponent to take you off the hand by pushing a draw without giving him any chance to bluff at the river. That's what you gain when you learn to play for value... all the chips that players will give you when they don't know how to represent a hand, while saving all the chips you have to fold against zealous semibluffs.

Irieguy

Apathy · #5 07-19-2005, 07:08 PM

I have a feeling you won this hand, but I really hate the turn call. UTG is betting into 4 players, so what do they have? You have to give them credit for some hand I think, and there are players left to act behind you so your 85 chips are likely to be left on the table when someone check raises.

The river is a pretty bad card for you, even if they were on a total bluff before the could have hit a Q with something like KsQs. Plus the club draw got there even though that is unlikely.

Once you get to the river though I think a call is in order, I'm guessing the villian had KsJs and you won, but that doesn't change the fact that you should have folded the turn.

curtains · #6 07-19-2005, 10:13 PM

I would fold on the turn.

Apathy · #7 07-20-2005, 12:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I would fold on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

care to share your reasons? I think this is an interesting hand.

Matt R. · #8 07-19-2005, 10:23 PM

I like it... I think his turn bet was small enough for you to call (and obviously the river bet is after you call the turn). Looks like a missed flush draw or a mid/low pair to me, and your 99 is ahead of most mid/low pairs (including JJ and TT... most people wouldn't even limp these), so I think you have the pot odds to call here. I think he doesn't have the ace often enough here for this to be profitable.

Edit -- pot odds isn't really even a necessary consideration, as I think you're usually ahead here. What I meant is that his bet size relative to the pot seems really weak, so I think your 99 is good often enough to call.