Is this insane?

Abelardo · #1 12-19-2005, 04:40 PM

UTG is a complete maniac and very aggro, has numbers of 85/47/3 over about ~25 hands, he bets and rises if he has any piece of the board even draws, but slows down when he has nothing, likes to bluff a lot as well. Here's the hand:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, MP calls, Button 3-bets, SB calls, Hero caps, UTG calls, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (17.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, MP folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

I've never done that before. I figured UTG most probably does not have a face card since he probably would've raised PF with one. I know he probably has a pair or something else, but the board was pretty draw-heavy and I thought he could've been betting strongly a very good (or even super) draw and then bluffing at the end (I don't think this opponent thinks that bluffing into 4 other people is a no-no, he doesn't care), and then everyone folded to his bet, 18-1 to call with jack-high...

Abelardo

jba · #2 12-19-2005, 04:43 PM

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...slows down when he has nothing...

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Is this insane?

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certifiably

sk_man · #3 12-19-2005, 05:03 PM

It's bad, but with the size of the pot it's not that bad. I'm still folding this without thinking though. Even when he is bluffing all the way, you're going to see a better high card far too much.

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I figured UTG most probably does not have a face card since he probably would've raised PF with one.

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I wouldn't assume that. When you find someone who will raise half the hands in the deck, they normally haven't worked out much of a pattern. If he does something like raising any Ace, then you can say he's probably not on Ace high, but that's about it.

More importantly, never let the manic sit behind you. Aggresive players in front, tight players behind. You'll never know how much you're going to pay for a card otherwise.

-dave

ejay · #4 12-19-2005, 05:09 PM

uhhm he can have queen high and still have the best hand. There is no reason to call this river. I dont even know if i would have capped the flop.

imported_leader · #5 12-19-2005, 05:11 PM

Yeah fold the river

jba · #6 12-19-2005, 05:12 PM

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uhhm he can have queen high and still have the best hand. There is no reason to call this river. I dont even know if i would have capped the flop.

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very easy flop cap in a 5-way pot.

#7 12-19-2005, 05:16 PM

The hand was played very well right up until the river. The flop cap was very nice, and the turn standard. I know it feels dumb to fold on the river to someone who could have almost anything, but really, with Jack-high, you're down to counting the hands that you can beat, not those you can't. Since your read is that he won't bet into the field with and unimproved 10-2, I think that you have to dump this on the river. That's just how it goes.

SomethingClever · #8 12-19-2005, 06:20 PM

Flop + Turn = good.

River... if you're going to do anything, bluff raise, don't bluff call.

Abelardo · #9 12-19-2005, 06:30 PM

Thank you all for replying. I had to post this because villian showed 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and I had mixed feelings about it. Turns out the situation was just perfect this time, he had a very good looking draw on the flop, on the turn he picked up a few more outs but probably didn't even noticed that, he bet anyways, and in the end he bluffed, he loves to bluff. I promise I won't be calling with jack high ever again. There's still one more thing I would want to know, getting 18-1 against this kind of opponent what would be the worst hand I should call with? Thank you.

Abelardo

jba · #10 12-19-2005, 06:31 PM

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Thank you all for replying. I had to post this because villian showed 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

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when I read your OP I knew for a fact he turned a worse spade draw because of the fact that you posted this... doesn't make it right [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]