Exorcisms

Bigdaddydvo · #1 10-27-2005, 10:42 PM

Since the debates on the existence of God will not end in the near future on this forum, I'll take a different approach...something akin to proving the color black throught the color white.

Throughout the centuries there have been documented instances of demonic posssession. The Church remains committed to fighting these instances by having its Bishops appoint priests as Exorcists. So my question really boils down to this: If a person appears possessed (you all have seen the movie so I'll save space otherwise dedicated to describing what possession looks like) and can do things like speak ancient Aramaic (that they would have an infinitely small chance of knowing already) and undergoes the Catholic rite of exorcism and is seemingly cured...haven't we proven the existence of God through its authority over something tangibly evil?

Please discuss.

#2 10-28-2005, 12:03 AM

But why does God allow the demons to get in these people in the first place, and why does God force them to leave only after an elaborate ritual?

#3 10-28-2005, 12:07 AM

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haven't we proven the existence of God through its authority over something tangibly evil?

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If an exorcism is such a slam dunk proof, then why doesn't the church invite some independent, credible observers next time and/or film the event for us all to see?

#4 10-28-2005, 12:43 AM

I've wondered about this for quite some time. Apparently, the RCC keeps good records of these sorts of things. I would very much like to attend some of them myself.

RJT · #5 10-28-2005, 12:49 AM

Kid and Metric,

I am not even touching the OP’s point. But, again, do you actually think if you witness one it would make a difference to you? Assuming for the sake of discussion you or anyone could not figure out what the problem was with the "patient". Then the exorcism was performed and immediately the person was “healed”. What would that change?

RJT

#6 10-28-2005, 12:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Kid and Metric,

I am not even touching the OP’s point. But, again, do you actually think if you witness one it would make a difference to you? Assuming for the sake of discussion you or anyone could not figure out what the problem was with the "patient". Then the exorcism was performed and immediately the person was “healed”. What would that change?

RJT

[/ QUOTE ]

Such an event may be the strongest proof of the existence of a God that is possible today, so why would the Catholic church choose to be hush-hush about them? They should be trying everything they can to get independent observers to corroborate such an event! Once again, your standard of proof for religious claims is a joke compared to your standard of proof for non-religious claims. It is utterly illogical for the church to not do everything it can to advertise the exorcising of demons ... unless such claims would clearly be shown to be false. I am frankly sick of your lack of intellectual honesty.

RJT · #7 10-28-2005, 01:02 AM

First ,the independent observer would have to accept the possibility that someone can be possessed. What scientist or doctor would ever say this? If they couldn’t figure out what was wrong with the "patient" to begin with, they would simply say they don’t know.

So how can you even get to the “cure” was a result of an exorcism?

#8 10-28-2005, 01:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
First ,the independent observer would have to accept the possibility that someone can be possessed. What scientist or doctor would ever say this? If they couldn’t figure out what was wrong with the "patient" to begin with, they would simply say they don’t know.

So how can you even get to the “cure” was a result of an exorcism?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some evidence, even if it can be debated, is better than none. Even you can put your agenda aside for a moment to concede this point.

RJT · #9 10-28-2005, 01:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First ,the independent observer would have to accept the possibility that someone can be possessed. What scientist or doctor would ever say this? If they couldn’t figure out what was wrong with the "patient" to begin with, they would simply say they don’t know.

So how can you even get to the “cure” was a result of an exorcism?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some evidence, even if it can be debated, is better than none. Even you can put your agenda aside for a moment to concede this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don’t have an agenda. I am just saying that I find it doubtful that such things would change much in your mind.

I am of the understanding that God is not even much of a possibility to you if any possibility. If I am wrong then I stand corrected. If I am right, then how can anything other than God appearing to you personally get anywhere. And even this, would you be so sure that your weren’t dazed and confused by something else, that is wasn’t a momentary lapse of reason (to mix Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd allusions)?

Btw, of course I agree with your point - I believe to begin with. I am playing the devils advocate is all.

kbfc · #10 10-28-2005, 02:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
And even this, would you be so sure that your weren’t dazed and confused by something else, that is wasn’t a momentary lapse of reason (to mix Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd-lite allusions)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was Rog who was quoted as calling this "the most aptly titled album of all time." I suppose I might just be wishfully attributing it to him, but nonetheless, I agree 100%.