Hero has TT in BB in his very first 5/10 session

Fiddler · #1 12-22-2005, 03:35 PM

This was kind of weird or possibly bad from my very first 5/10 session.

Party 5/10 6-max (5-handed)

Hero has T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in BB.

UTG folds, CO raises, Button folds, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, CO-caps.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (~4.somethingBB)

Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (~4.somethingBB)

Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img].

I'm probably up against not much or a monster? Check-fold? Bet-fold? Or okay to do what I planned, check-call and check-fold river if I don't improve and he bets again?

I have only mined some 30k hands or so at 5/10 and hardly had anything on CO. I think I can safely say he is loose but that is about it.

#2 12-22-2005, 04:00 PM

Hi Fiddler-

I'd donk/fold the turn here. I like your flop line given the preflop action, as you're obviously going to call a bet anyway if he bets with your gutshot on the flop. He's not going to raise the turn here without a legit hand I don't think.

#3 12-22-2005, 04:02 PM

yeah i'd bet turn and bet river probably if he just calls and the river card isn't scary. you have a good # of outs as well if he is somehow ahead and is just playing passive. the turn play either looks like he hit the flop and is trying to trap you (though that's stupid given it's coordination) or just a pure bluff.

adsman · #4 12-22-2005, 04:06 PM

If you didn't have the gutshot outs then I would bet the turn as we can safely fold to a raise. The fact that you have outs to a gutshot leads me to check and call as I would hate it to be raised in this situation.

#5 12-22-2005, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you didn't have the gutshot outs then I would bet the turn as we can safely fold to a raise. The fact that you have outs to a gutshot leads me to check and call as I would hate it to be raised in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

We can still safely fold to a raise. Pot would be ~ 6 BB and I am really hesitant to call getting 6:1 for 6 very questionable outs. Our set outs may be tainted by something overplayed like AJs and there's an outside chance villain's holding includes a T and we're splitting. Villain could also be playing a set very, very stupidly. In any case, I'm happy bet/folding the turn.

jba · #6 12-22-2005, 04:26 PM

this is such a weird line that I would just get to showdown as cheap as possible without improving.

fizzleboink · #7 12-22-2005, 04:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you didn't have the gutshot outs then I would bet the turn as we can safely fold to a raise. The fact that you have outs to a gutshot leads me to check and call as I would hate it to be raised in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think being raised on the turn in this situation is that bad as it is pretty clear you are behind and can safely fold.

That being said however, this is a tough spot. After he checks the flop you are either behind to a monster or he just got stupid with some mediocre hand.

I think the combined chance of your outs and the chance that you are possibly ahead make this a check-call to the showdown, unless you improve to the straight. I want to see showdowns with people who take these weird lines.

kidcolin · #8 12-22-2005, 04:55 PM

If we want to find out where we stand, just bet fold. I think putting in 2 more BBs is too much.

His check means one two things, like fizzle suggested:

1) A slowplay. Likely KK or QQ, maybe retardedly AA or AK (seen it before)
2) A hand like 99 or JJ... maybe an overplayed AJs or AQ and the K scared him? (usually a K doesn't scare a guy willing to cap AQ).

If we check/call, it should only be because we think we have the best hand. It's unlikely here. If we think the chances of being ahead + chances of sucking out is good enough for the price we're getting, I'm willing to hear those arguments. However, if that's the case, we can't check/call the river too. We have to fold if he bets the river, too. We'll almost never see a river bet from a hand we beat.

Bet/folding is good because it gives us fold equity for the times he has JJ. It also means we only put in 1 bet when way behind.

If we bet and just get called, then I think I'd probably check/call UI, because now I'm fully in "wtf?" mode and want to see his cards.

fizzleboink · #9 12-22-2005, 05:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
However, if that's the case, we can't check/call the river too. We have to fold if he bets the river, too. We'll almost never see a river bet from a hand we beat.

Bet/folding is good because it gives us fold equity for the times he has JJ. It also means we only put in 1 bet when way behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I agree with the fact that he isn't betting a hand we beat on the river, so I think I like the check-fold on the river.

But if that's our plan, Isn't a check/call better than a bet/fold because it gives us a chance to hit our outs (not to mention a small possibility of a free showdown)? In both cases we are only putting in 1 bet.

I don't think you have very much fold equity with a turn bet, because I think we're behind to so many possible combinations of hands that won't fold, and I don't even think JJ will fold very often at all either.

Fiddler · #10 12-22-2005, 05:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]

But if that's our plan, Isn't a check/call better than a bet/fold because it gives us a chance to hit our outs (not to mention a small possibility of a free showdown)? In both cases we are only putting in 1 bet.

I don't think you have very much fold equity with a turn bet, because I think we're behind to so many possible combinations of hands that won't fold, and I don't even think JJ will fold very often at all either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, this was what was going through my head. 1 bet either way, a chance for a free showdown or sucking out plus I doubt he bets a worse hand one more time on that board. But I didn't have any good reads on him so I think my line might be better saved for someone I'm sure is tricky and aggressive pre or plays weak-tight when overcards fall.

Edit: Ok, maybe not against a weak tightie since that would be a good opportunity to bet but against an over aggro trickster/bluffer or... someone else not specified. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I'll just mention the results that weren't so interesting really. I rivered a J, check-raised and he folded so I still have no idea what he had.