A question for Christians AND atheists - Page 3

imported_luckyme · #21 12-09-2005, 01:05 AM

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When I finally realized the truth it was like becoming alive for the first time.

[/ QUOTE ] Some version of this operates on both sides of the aisle. It's more the arriving in a mental space that you have confidence in. Born-againers experience a related 'relief' also.

Lestat · #22 12-09-2005, 01:10 AM

<font color="blue">but certainly you must know there are plenty of Christians who live honest and blissful lives. </font>

I don't know how. Don't you find it sad that your god is going to torture over 80% of the people on the planet to an eternal hell of suffering? Is EVERYONE you know and love going to be with you in heaven? How can you lead a blissful life while knowing that your blacksheep sibling, a sinful friend, an ex-lover will be burning in hell for all of eternity?

These are some of the things that depressed me about Catholicism. The god they portrayed didn't seem very loving to me. He seems to enjoy burning people at altars, committing mass murders by flood, killing innocent first borns, etc. And yet with this knowledge, and all this future suffering you manage to lead a blissful life?

#23 12-09-2005, 01:16 AM

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Can you prove to me that Jesus was not the Son of God?
Sounds like you're putting the onus on me to disprove something

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If you claim that you know it to be disproven with utter certainty, then yes, I am putting that onus on you.

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instead of insuinating that if your belief cannot be disproved it must mean I am the one using faulty reasoning?

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I insinuated no such thing. Your reasoning is fine, that since it doesn't make sense to you, you don't believe it. However you take great liberties with the words "truth", "know", and "certain" and this is simply what I was pointing out.

#24 12-09-2005, 01:17 AM

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Faith and religion were invented by people who felt the same weaknesses I did

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Factually incorrect.

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I think you misinterpreted my philosophical/psychological meaning. I'm exploring the individual's motivations for religious thought. An insightful book on the subject is Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morality.

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I'd rather live honestly than blissfully.

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It's unfortunate that you suffered from depression, but certainly you must know there are plenty of Christians who live honest and blissful lives.

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I do not know any Christians who I would call intellectually honest. That's not to say there aren't any out there. But Christianity lends itself to ignorance since faith is a necessary requirement, not to mention the fear it instills in those who would otherwise question it. Such brilliant safeguards the bible put into place! To be an atheist takes courage and the ability to be brutally honest with oneself. Admittedly, most people aren't capable of this.

#25 12-09-2005, 01:25 AM

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I don't know how. Don't you find it sad that your god is going to torture over 80% of the people on the planet to an eternal hell of suffering? Is EVERYONE you know and love going to be with you in heaven? How can you lead a blissful life while knowing that your blacksheep sibling, a sinful friend, an ex-lover will be burning in hell for all of eternity?

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There's that liberal usage of the word "know" again. I don't know the answers to any of those questions, nor am I a Catholic. I manage to make it through my day without thinking much of Hell.

imported_luckyme · #26 12-09-2005, 01:26 AM

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Would you go to work on Monday if you knew you were not going to get a paycheck on Friday? Would you make personal plans for a month from now if you knew you were going to die tomorrow?

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The problem with believing that everyone has that psychological need is that there are millions of two-legged pieces of evidence that show it is not a necessary condition for everyone. Productive, happy, community-oriented, family-centered, whatever ... find life very rewarding and fullfilling without it.
I'm not plugging which is better ( feeling fulfilled because of distant future rewards, or feeling fulfilled with the rewards over 3score and 10) just that it's obviously not a universal necessity.

#27 12-09-2005, 01:31 AM

Evolvedform, you talk of intellectual honesty, and then purport your absolute certainty of something that you can in no way be certain of, that is, if you were actually intellectually honest.

#28 12-09-2005, 01:34 AM

Luckyme, I don't believe that everyone has that psychological need. Clearly atheists do not.

I simply put forth a reason for believing in Christ, since one was requested.

#29 12-09-2005, 01:36 AM

When do I "purport my absolute certainty?" This statement is absurd. It's called an opinion. If you were confident in your own opnion you wouldn't be so offended by mine.

imported_luckyme · #30 12-09-2005, 01:41 AM

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I do not know any Christians who I would call intellectually honest. That's not to say there aren't any out there.

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The typical xtrian is raised in that culture and it's not a matter of intellectual honesty since that hasn't been tested by them. No more than why we shake hands or clink our glasses.

The intellectual honesty issue can only arise if one tries to approach it intellectually ( and some do) which never seems to work, maybe it can't work.