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  #1  
Old 12-07-2005, 06:22 PM
tigerite tigerite is offline
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Posts: 360
Default ($109) Bubble with micro stack - I feel like such a donk

But is there really any other way to play this? Meh.

PartyPoker - NL Texas Hold'em $100 Buy-in + $9 Entry Fee Tournament | Level: 6 - 4 players (Converter: PGC)

BB is N/A

Chip Counts:
Button: 1560 Chips
<font color="red">Hero: 3435 Chips</font>
BB: 4480 Chips
UTG: 525 Chips

Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Blinds are 100/200

PreFlop
<font color="blue">UTG folds</font>, <font color="blue">Button folds</font>
<font color="red">Hero RAISES ($400)</font>, <font color="red">BB RAISES ($600)</font>
<font color="green">Hero Calls</font>

(2 players) FLOP: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 1600 Chips )
Hero is All-In, <font color="green">BB Calls</font>

(2 players) TURN: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 6870 Chips )


(2 players) RIVER: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 6870 Chips )


Final Pot:6870 Chips
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  #2  
Old 12-07-2005, 06:27 PM
bestcellar bestcellar is offline
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Default Re: ($109) Bubble with micro stack - I feel like such a donk

not really
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2005, 06:29 PM
Paul Thomson Paul Thomson is offline
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Default Re: ($109) Bubble with micro stack - I feel like such a donk

I respect your thoughts and posts. I really appreciate that you take the time to answer everyones post. This is something Curtains said in an annotated hand history that I posted a few weeks back.

" I think you have two choices with one being slightly better than the other. You either go all-in on the flop, putting your opponent in a difficult place or you check-raise-all-in unless your opponents bet makes them pot committed. I think the check raise all in is slightly better.

The problem with the all-in is that it doesn’t give your opponent to make a mistake. A check allows him to take a stab at the pot. The only time that checking costs you is if your opponent bluffs all-in, but I think this is unlikely. On the other hand, if you check and your opponent bets all-in or half his stack, then I would fold. But if your opponent makes a continuation bet, then I would reraise him all-in. This way if your opponent has nothing then you pick up some extra chips but if he has something then you are given the correct odds to win the hand. "

laters.
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  #4  
Old 12-07-2005, 06:30 PM
tigerite tigerite is offline
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Default Re: ($109) Bubble with micro stack - I feel like such a donk

Yes, that hand went through my head at the time of this too, but the difference here is the pot is much bigger compared to my stack - it almost is equal to my stack in fact - whereas in the other one, the pot was only 675 and Hero's stack was 1100 odd, almost double. Plus, he had me covered, rather than vice versa.

By the way I think all-in does let my opponent make a mistake but sadly not this one, he called his QQ anyway.
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2005, 06:32 PM
pooh74 pooh74 is offline
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Posts: 316
Default Re: ($109) Bubble with micro stack - I feel like such a donk

[ QUOTE ]
I respect your thoughts and posts. I really appreciate that you take the time to answer everyones post. This is something Curtains said in an annotated hand history that I posted a few weeks back.

" I think you have two choices with one being slightly better than the other. You either go all-in on the flop, putting your opponent in a difficult place or you check-raise-all-in unless your opponents bet makes them pot committed. I think the check raise all in is slightly better.

The problem with the all-in is that it doesn’t give your opponent to make a mistake. A check allows him to take a stab at the pot. The only time that checking costs you is if your opponent bluffs all-in, but I think this is unlikely. On the other hand, if you check and your opponent bets all-in or half his stack, then I would fold. But if your opponent makes a continuation bet, then I would reraise him all-in. This way if your opponent has nothing then you pick up some extra chips but if he has something then you are given the correct odds to win the hand. "

laters.

[/ QUOTE ]

The hand itself is not the problem here. If this were 4 way with everyone at 2500 each then, ok, maybe. What is donkish about the way he played the hand was getting this deeply involved on the bubble with the only guy that covers him, when he has a huge stack and someone else else has a tiny stack.

bad play....awful


Edit: Just wanted to add that when someone asks "was this push ok?" 20 posters and there mothers come up with exact EV calcs within the first 5 minutes, but Tigerite, you should see that this essentially the same thing...you led yourself down a series of steps that were, from their inception, -EV to begin with.

This BTW leads to a seperate post perhaps, but some interesting things come to mind about vying for bigstack status on the bubble and what that gains you and what the risk is in getting it.
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  #6  
Old 12-07-2005, 06:36 PM
junkmail3 junkmail3 is offline
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Posts: 249
Default Re: ($109) Bubble with micro stack - I feel like such a donk

Wow, you are a donk!

I'd probably raise this preflop like you did and fold to the reriase.

It may look somewhat weak to the reraiser (if he was just pushing his stack around), but the shortie is too short really. He'll be gone too soon, and your stack will still be very playable ITM. Even if he survives this orbit, he's dead soon. And if he doubles up, then - play some more
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  #7  
Old 12-07-2005, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: ($109) Bubble with micro stack - I feel like such a donk

i might lay this down pf given that micro-stack is BB next hand...
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  #8  
Old 12-07-2005, 06:44 PM
bigt439 bigt439 is offline
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Default Re: ($109) Bubble with micro stack - I feel like such a donk

Problem with this hand is absent of a read his min reraise is likely a huge hand here. I think calling the pf raise is reasonable but not mandatory. You're oop so you're going to have a tough time playing a small pot whether behind or ahead. The only reason I might call is because he'll probably play TT - KK pretty slow if an A flops letting you get a cheap showdown, but I think this might be pushing it. A flush draw isn't great because you don't want to get it in flipping and he's likely calling so much because his range is likely so strong. I might fold to the reraise pf not because you're not getting odds, but because you're in an awful situation. On the flop I would try and see a turn as cheaply as possible, but would have no problem check folding to a pot bet. The bubble dynamics affect this hand so much; I think to the point of making the optimal line look incredibly different from the optimal line here 6-handed or even 4-handed with relative stack parity. I understand why you overplayed this hand, but that is what I think you did. Unfortunately the biggie's got you by the balls here and there's not much you can do IMO.
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  #9  
Old 12-07-2005, 06:44 PM
Shillx Shillx is offline
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Posts: 4,478
Default Re: ($109) Bubble with micro stack - I feel like such a donk

If the guy is good, I'm going to the felt preflop, and I'm going to it with a lot of hands. Raising to some small amount will just get re-pushed and all you do is throw away that T400 or whatever since you can't call an all-in reraise.

If the guy is bad and will call a lot, I would just fold preflop.
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  #10  
Old 12-07-2005, 06:47 PM
Melchiades Melchiades is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 18
Default Re: ($109) Bubble with micro stack - I feel like such a donk

I check fold any decent sized flop bet, while puking. Probably just complete preflop as well. Don't wanna play a big pot OOP with BB at all.
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