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  #11  
Old 11-20-2005, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue"> If one of the super super longshots like one of the wacko personality cults or scientology comes in, then I am screwed for sure because I have in the past and will continue to mock such systems based upon the most preposterous of premises. </font>

Doesn't this answer your question?

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And don't you see (BluffThis) how hypocritical this is? I admire your honesty, though. I agree that atheists shouldn't mock people's religious beliefs... that's almost as bad as believers "witnessing" to non-believers in order to get them to believe. I admit, sometimes I do it. But, I also promise you that I would NOT do it, if people would just keep their Jesus off my penis.
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2005, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets

Recently I've been wasting a lot of time reading long posts that only really have one or two lines of content. So I bit the bullet and finally purchased VelcroSoft PostSummarizer(TM) software. I ran your post through it, and it gave me the following:

[ QUOTE ]
-------------Summary of Post No. 3988935-------------------
<font color="white">.</font>
Warning: Don't mock God, you'll end up in hell

[/ QUOTE ]

It's paying for itself already.
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  #13  
Old 11-21-2005, 03:03 AM
David Sklansky David Sklansky is offline
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Default Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets

"Now this does not mean I think that respect and consideration should be accorded to every religious system, because I don't. If one of the super super longshots like one of the wacko personality cults or scientology comes in, then I am screwed for sure because I have in the past and will continue to mock such systems based upon the most preposterous of premises."

Let me weigh in here as well. I have already stated that it is impolite to mock beliefs people hold dear. However you yourself don't agree. Mocking Scientology etc. is OK in your book because it is "preposterous".

By that statement you imply that even atheists realize that the major religions are not preposterous. And that, for the most part is just wrong. Some might feel this way. And many atheists and agnostics would agree that cults are even more preposterous than specific religions. They also might admit that some sort of being created the universe. But after all is said and done, most agnostics, including me, think that any specific religion is RIDICULOUSLY UNLIKELY. Certainly unlikely enough to deserve mocking if Scientology deserves it.
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  #14  
Old 11-21-2005, 04:57 AM
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Default Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets

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But after all is said and done, most agnostics, including me, think that any specific religion is RIDICULOUSLY UNLIKELY. Certainly unlikely enough to deserve mocking if Scientology deserves it.

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This is even more true when Christianity is the religion being discussed. People forget that its core beliefs are as absurd as Scientology. I'll list a few Catholic beliefs:

1. There is an invisible man who created and has power over the entire universe. He gave humans one life on Earth, after which time will be sent to a place of wonder and happiness for eternity. However, he has a list of things he doesn't want you to do. If you do these things without asking forgiveness, you will end up in a place of torture and suffering for the rest of eternity. If you make fun of him, you will also end up in this place.

2. Two thousand years ago, God impregnated a human virgin so that he could have a son. This man grew up to be a prophet. In his life he walked on water, turned water in wine, instantly healed diseases. He was nailed to a cross, allowed himself to die, and three days later rose from the dead. Because of this, people can now go to that place of wonder and happiness.

3. You can perform a ritual whereby rice crackers and fermented grape juice turn into the ACTUAL - THE ACTUAL - meat and blood of that guy who lived 2000 years ago. You can then eat this and be brought closer to the invisible man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation

Looking at this objectively, people who believe these things sound like nutcases, or at least slightly mentally challenged. Can anybody reasonably say otherwise? How are these beliefs fundamentally different from Scientology's (not their practices, the actual beliefs themselves).
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  #15  
Old 11-21-2005, 06:40 AM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets

David, I realize how unlikely you find christianity or the other major religions, a probability compared to 100% that isn't that much bigger than that for scientology in absolute terms. But copared to each other, christianity to scientology, christianity is at least several orders of magnitude a larger probability. We at least have some, if not to non-believers' minds, sufficient, evidence. Where is the least evidence for the the souls of those killed by Xenu the evil galactic ruler millions of years ago inhabiting us?

Also, I shouldn't have included not mocking as being considerate of the views of others, because that is not the point of my post, which relates such mocking to the consequences from God if such a wager would otherwise win for a person but for that mocking. I am not in the least thin skinned and am never upset when someone derides my views. Nor even when they deride God, though that does make me sad for them.
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  #16  
Old 11-21-2005, 06:55 AM
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Default Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets

[ QUOTE ]
David, I realize how unlikely you find christianity or the other major religions, a probability compared to 100% that isn't that much bigger than that for scientology in absolute terms. But copared to each other, christianity to scientology, christianity is at least several orders of magnitude a larger probability. We at least have some, if not to non-believers' minds, sufficient, evidence. Where is the least evidence for the the souls of those killed by Xenu the evil galactic ruler millions of years ago inhabiting us?

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BlufTHIS,

Excuse me for butting in to a question obviously addressed to DS. I just can't help myself and it is a public forum, and an interesting one at that. Specifically with regards to soul, I guess there is no more evidence for the scientologists or for the catholics. What seems more important is which of the two creed is more dangerous or noxious. There I would have side without hesitation: the scientolgists are more dangerous. But on reflection, I am not sure... if we were to count the deaths/murders in the name of each creed... ?

Lets say, that, imho, as things stand todays except for the size of the following, the scientologist are more pernicious. Especially given their secrecy. At least I can read as much as I want about the catholic creed without parting with my hard, or soft, earned cash.

See, I am not just here to run them catholics or christaians or theists down. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #17  
Old 11-21-2005, 07:13 AM
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Default Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets

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But on reflection, I am not sure... if we were to count the deaths/murders in the name of each creed... ?

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Obviously Catholics take the cake on that one.

But I think the truly nasty side of this cult is the number of HIV infections they cause each year. As well as increasing overpopulation and famines in various parts of the world.
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  #18  
Old 11-21-2005, 07:19 AM
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Default Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets

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I am not in the least thin skinned and am never upset when someone derides my views. Nor even when they deride God, though that does make me sad for them because I know they're spending the rest of eternity in a place of torture and anguish. I believe that this is just. This does not make me a rather sick individual.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP
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  #19  
Old 11-21-2005, 10:45 AM
RJT RJT is offline
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Default Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But on reflection, I am not sure... if we were to count the deaths/murders in the name of each creed... ?

[/ QUOTE ]
Obviously Catholics take the cake on that one.


But I think the truly nasty side of this cult is the number of HIV infections they cause each year. As well as increasing overpopulation and famines in various parts of the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

The poster formerly known as the Little Prince,

I do not catch your HIV connect? Please explain. Also, I assume the overpopulation thing alludes to birth control. I must ask for further explanation here too; as it is my understanding that hunger is not attributed to over-population, but more to food distribution. I am quite certain that there is enough food in the world to feed all at this time. I could be wrong though as my information is a few years old.

RJT
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  #20  
Old 11-21-2005, 10:50 AM
RJT RJT is offline
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Default Re: Pascal\'s Wager and Free Bets

I just caught the HIV – no condoms. Well, to get technical if one follows the Church’s teaching and both partners only has sex with each other beginning with a marriage then this is not an issue. Since obviously this isn’t the case when HIV transmission takes place – that is one either had sex prior to marriage our outside of the marriage with someone else, then I doubt if said person really cares about the “no condom” rule within the marriage. Don’t blame the Church here.
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