Phil Hellmuth was cheated?

Aceshigh7 · #1 10-05-2005, 07:32 AM

Saw this story related by Hellmuth in a couple of different interviews:

[ QUOTE ]
I know that I got cheated on a cruise ship. I was basically warned to avoid the games. But, from my perspective, I was 24 years old; I’d won all kinds of poker tournaments, including the World Series of Poker. I’d won a lot of money in the side games. And, I didn’t even think cheating was possible. For an unknown kid to come along and win all these events, cheating couldn’t exist. Or so I reasoned. Then I got caught on a cruise ship where they cheated me.”

What’s the story behind it?

“I think the board was 4, 4, J, and I flipped up my K, J, and the guy flipped up A, J. And it just didn’t seem like everything was right. It seemed like there was no way he could have A, J in this hand. I got off the cruise ship. I had $64,000 to my name, and I owed $57,000 to a bunch of guys that cheated me. A lot of people said, ‘You shouldn’t pay.’ And I said, ‘Look, I don’t know 100 percent that I was cheated.’ And, I paid it all – left myself with $7,000.”

[/ QUOTE ]

Granted there could be more to it that he is leaving out, but KJ against AJ on a 44J board doesn't look very suspicious at all. Looks like a rather common hand to me.

Could this just be a case of a brash young Hellmuth thinking he was cheated because his mind just couldn't accept losing a pot he was sure he was going to win? Anyone heard anything more about this?

MeanGreenTT · #2 10-05-2005, 08:24 AM

Hmmm, interesting.....give me another 10 or so years to think about it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

MicroBob · #3 10-05-2005, 08:53 AM

I suspect you could be correct.

He has some sort of psychic 'hunch' or whatever it is that something just wasn't right.

Why is it such a big deal that the other guy had AJ??
Were they somehow setting him up with KJ to lose a big pot?? It's not like KJ is a freaking monster to set up somebody with.

This reads similar to someone losing a bad-beat online and claiming that it must be because the cards were rigged.

I have my own psychic 'hunch' also.
It is that Hellmuth probably wasn't cheated at all. He just lost and couldn't accept it.

however...if it was a situation where he 'decided' to pay the guys anyway then does that mean he had some sort of marker or something?
was this a private-game on the cruise-ship?
i mean...I guess it's POSSIBLE that he got cheated....because cheating DOES happen of course.
But he lost with KJ to AJ and had a 'hunch' about it....and that doesn't carry a whole lot of weight.

#4 10-05-2005, 10:25 AM

He must have gotten other information that led him to believe he got cheated but just left it out, he's not mentally retarded.

The only thing fishy thing is that its not really an action flop which is something I imagin someone rigging a hand would wanna set up.

miajag81 · #5 10-05-2005, 10:31 AM

I think it's more interesting that he says he had only $64,000 to his name only months after winning the WSOP ME.

daryn · #6 10-05-2005, 10:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's more interesting that he says he had only $64,000 to his name only months after winning the WSOP ME.

[/ QUOTE ]

ding

spicychili · #7 10-05-2005, 10:36 AM

cruise ship poker is rigged

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

drewjustdrew · #8 10-05-2005, 10:47 AM

what did he win for the wsop? Like $800,000 that year? After taxes, he would be left with 500,000 or so. He buys a couple nice things, cars for his family, a new house, etc. Might have had debts before the tourney. That could easily leave him with 200,000 or so. Maybe he invested the rest or took some losses he won't allow himself to remember.

I doubt he lost all of it gambling.

illegit · #9 10-05-2005, 11:02 AM

I'd expect the story to go "I had JJ on a J44 board and was up against 44. Very next hand I have KK on KKQT4 board and lose to a royal etc." But you just overplayed your KJ against AJ? Most uninteresting, non-cheat situation ever.

PokerPaul · #10 10-05-2005, 11:03 AM

don't know about cruise ship poker, but i can tell you that the cruise ship casinos are pretty scrupulous. Out on the oceans i guess there are no juristictions.

For instance, at carribean stud, they set the jackpot down to 10 or 15000 with each sailing and pocket the built up amount above it from previous week from customers.

Or, at some of the carrebean resorts on certain islands they never raise jackpot amount above 15000, and furthermore u only win it if you have a royal flush of spades.

Also, jacks or better video poker, they change so its aces or better. jacks queens and kings u lose.

Needless to say i never put a dime into those places.