A6s in the BB. A few decisions requiring input.

[Wyers]

In this one hand there were two situations where I likely often make mistakes. Mostly concerned about the river. Should I be value betting here or am I just looking for trouble?

<font color="red">UTG+1: 77 hands 26/0/1.44

MP2: 49 hands 40/2/0.67</font>

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Wyers is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="red"> Wyers calls</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.


Flop: (10.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Wyers checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Button folds, <font color="red">Wyers calls</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds.

Borderline call? Backdoor nut flush and straight draws along with an overcard. Figured my outs to be slightly over 4 so I made the call.


Turn: (6.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="red">Wyers checks</font>, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="red">Wyers calls</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="red">Wyers calls</font>.

Turn seemed pretty straightforward to me. Yes?


River: (12.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="red">Wyers checks</font>, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks.

Holding the short end of this straight. Should I have come out and bet? Felt a little weak when I thought about it afterwards.


Final Pot: 12.75 BB

[dingbet]

Why in god's name are you calling this flop?

[Wyers]

Why in god's name are you calling this flop?

I explained in the OP why I called the flop. I'm not saying it was the best decision but I do not think it was horrible.

It would be more helpful if you could elaborate on your objection to the call.

[Tapin]

Because Hero figures he has 4ish outs (1.5 each for the backdoor straights &amp; flushes, and maybe 1 for the overcard) and he's getting better than 10:1 for the call thanks to the preflop raise. It's borderline, but not terrible.

The entire hand is marginal IMO, but with two others betting on the turn I think a check-raise play on the river isn't terrible. If you were checking planning on calling, I don't like it. Then again, I like to spew.

[Piiop]

I would've bet the river. If raised, I would call 1, but not 2. With this board, it's pretty likely to get checked thru even by a hand as strong as a set - especially when both of your opponents aren't very aggressive.

I like the rest.

[Wyers]

I think a check-raise play on the river isn't terrible. If you were checking planning on calling, I don't like it.

Sadly, I was planning for the check/call - and I don't like it either. The more I think about it, the more I feel as though I should have bet this river.

[Louie Landale]

You one-card back-door small straight draw isn't worth anywhere near the worth of your nut 3-flush, which is only "worth" 1.5 outs. Things are better if that J was a Q, for reasons you can deduce on the river.

You should check the river if [1] the maniac will bluff [2] if you don't expect to get called AND you don't have to call if someone bets (This means, of course, you should routinely bluff in this situation but I digress). Otherwise routinely bet, especially into habitual callers or folks who have already shown strength (as in this hand).

Betting is almost always better than checking and calling unless its the maniac; this is because folks call with more hands then then bet. Think that out. The more hands the opponent puts that last bet in with - the better for you.

This last principle leads to the following form: bet and call the raise, check-and-call, bet out the river. That should be fairly common, once or twice a night.

- Louie

[akvsaq]

Get the hell out of the flop. End of story.

[winky51]

Calling the flop was wrong. With 2 backdoors and no pair you can't call. Its even in the book. If someone raised before the flop your Ace is probably no good. Even if they didnt your kicker sucks. Only way you call here is with a pair and a backdoor or 2. Even just a pair your getting 10:1 for 2 pair.

[thejameser]

bet the river, you missed value there.