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#1
05-05-2005, 09:47 PM
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How tight is too tight?
I am currently playing 1/2 Limit, and am about to start playing 2/4 when I hit $1200. I've been scouting the 2/4 and see that this is where things start to get tough. From what I've been reading ppl seem to play with a VPIP of 20 or more. Of the last 7500 hands I've averaged 14.5 and am afraid It will be too tight for the higher levels. On the other hand I have also been averaging 5BB/hr and have come to play the tight game really well.
I know poker isnt a game of simplistic stats, but of outplaying your opponents. But at what point does a tight player get eaten by the blinds? What is the bare theoretical set of hands that could beat the blinds/rake? Also to those winning players with 20+ VPIP what exactly are you playing? It seems like you would have to be playing suited connectors, suited aces, etc from all positions to get a vpip over 20. I have always found these to be big losers in limit. What should I expect at the higher limits? 
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#2
05-05-2005, 11:10 PM
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Re: How tight is too tight?
First...
Get Small Stakes Hold'em by Sklansky et al. Published January 2005... Which is aimed at $2/$4 and $3/$6... And recommends playing more hands than you do. Second... "How tight is too tight?" is an excellent question. I've been data mining Party $2/$4 for a month... As an interesting mathematical exercise... So I have 35,000 hands of very recent play. Most of the winning players are 15% to 22% VP$IP... And Pre-Flop Raise > 9%. There are virtually no consistent winners below 15% VP$IP... So at $2/$4 there is "too tight"... and it's below 15%. But there is no magic number. You can do well anywhere in the 16-22% range... Depending on your style. The most important thing it seems... Is how well you play post flop. My $0.02 rm+ [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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#3
05-06-2005, 10:40 AM
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Re: How tight is too tight?
I think the 2+2 consensus would be that 20-22 percent is optimal for 1/2 and that moving up to 2/4 this drops to more like 17-18. However, the drop in VPIP for most players will come as a natural outgrowth of the more aggressive play at the higher level. More pots are raised early in the betting, more end up being contested two- and three-way rather than four- and five-way so a lot of hands you could play in LP or in the blinds at 1/2 become folds.
Your question about what is too tight is interesting. But I don't think it is the blinds that are the problem. I think at least some of the fish at 1/2 -- and maybe even a handful at .5/1 -- do recognize extremely tight play and save their wildest aggression for pots with the other loose players and players like me (VPIP 22-24) who play in enough hands to seem to blend into their world. That's just my unsystematic observation. Whether that's true or not at micro limits, there's little question that at 2/4 enough players would be noticing overly tight play and the result would consistently mean a bet or two less in too many pots when you make your best hands.
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#5
05-06-2005, 03:11 PM
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Re: How tight is too tight?
[ QUOTE ]
But at what point does a tight player get eaten by the blinds? What is the bare theoretical set of hands that could beat the blinds/rake? [/ QUOTE ] the rake is much worse at 1/2 than it is at 2/4 so looking at it this way you should play tighter at 2/4, i think the difference is that the players at higher limits are going to start noticing your tightness more and not paying you off. also 2/4 is a little bit tighter than 1/2 so playing a litte looser can take down more pots. a lot of the hands you play should be skill dependent.. for instance a really good player can make a lot of hands that are -EV from early position for me +EV out of the same position. i think that the more skill you gain post flop the greater number of hands you can afford to play preflop. I also think that loosening up greatens your variance... I'd like to get a second opinion on this one though.
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#6
05-06-2005, 04:01 PM
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Re: How tight is too tight?
[ QUOTE ]
I heard Sklansky is an incredible poker mind but he sucks at actually playing... I found that quite amusing... reminds me of a friend. [/ QUOTE ] hmm...troll. Thank you for your nonrelevent BS addition to the thread.
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#8
05-06-2005, 06:11 PM
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Re: How tight is too tight?
[ QUOTE ]
the rake is much worse at 1/2 than it is at 2/4 so looking at it this way you should play tighter at 2/4, i think the difference is that the players at higher limits are going to start noticing your tightness more and not paying you off. also 2/4 is a little bit tighter than 1/2 so playing a litte looser can take down more pots. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not too sure about that. My agression factor so far at the 1/2 tables is over 5. I've always felt like ppl equate your preflop play with how tight/agressive you are. They automatically assume that because you play very few hands you are a weak player. But I'm not, I am very aggresive post flop and I find ppl calling me to the river when I do have a hand. I like my style, and I think I will stick with it until things start going bad. As for SSH, I've read it. I have no problem with loose games. I guess I am just wondering what types of playes you are going to make at the higher levels. Are you going to call a raise with Axs just because you can 'outplay' your opponent? I find limit is mostly about showing down the best hand.
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#9
05-06-2005, 06:51 PM
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Re: How tight is too tight?
[ QUOTE ]
2/4 is still very loose. [/ QUOTE ] I have been playing up to 10/20 on party the last 4 weeks and notice these tables can be as loose as the 2/4 tables. Full of people trying to give their money away.
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#10
05-07-2005, 07:19 AM
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Re: How tight is too tight?
I think most people would say that an ag factor of 5 is way too high. It sounds like you avoid quite a few marginal situations that are long-term +EV and possibly that your bets and raises are met with too many folds and simple call downs.
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