PP 7 handed 15/30 flop decision

[amulet]

you are in no way guaranteed a free card. co acts after you do. if you have position on both opponents raising for the free card is clear. but if you raise the flop, co calls, and you miss (all likely), if you then check the turn the co acts after you do.

[mmcd]

I raise, take a free card on a turn, and quite possibly show ace-high at showdown.

I don't think it's possible to accopmlish both of these.

Assuming the player behind him clears out and the LAG just calls, I bet the turn here and take the showdown unimproved.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
you are in no way guaranteed a free card. co acts after you do. if you have position on both opponents raising for the free card is clear. but if you raise the flop, co calls, and you miss (all likely), if you then check the turn the co acts after you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

If CO calls then I get value on my raise.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm surprised you say that, I think this is an easy raise, you wouldn't mind folding gutshot +1 overcards hands like K9s etc, you either get value from your raise if CO calls or possible free card.

[stoxtrader]

I call here. ultimately the value of a raise depends on the chances you can win this hand without a showdow, I'd have to dive into the math and make assumptions, but given the board and the action, the flop is a call because i think your semi-bluffing equity is very very low.

a raise also cuts your implied odds for when you do hit your hand on later streets.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I call here. ultimately the value of a raise depends on the chances you can win this hand without a showdow, I'd have to dive into the math and make assumptions, but given the board and the action, the flop is a call because i think your semi-bluffing equity is very very low.

a raise also cuts your implied odds for when you do hit your hand on later streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

ya know stox,

i couldn't think of what i do here most often...and i tried to go looking through my PT database to find a similar hand and see how i played it but i suck at PT so i gave up...

i think i probably raise too much here...maybe 65-35 call...

i think against some people though i definately do raise and its right...but 35 is too high i agree...whats your call to raise? im gunna aim for more callin less raisin'

-Barron

[JasonP530]

Youre not getting the cutoff to fold any hand you want him to fold(with the minor exception of A9). He will call a T,J, AJ, and certainly AQ/AK if he only cold called them. I think youre likely to get 3 bet by AJ or called down by QJ/KJ. Call and if you sense a bluff, then call the river unimproved. I dont think agression will win this one.

[hogger]

[ QUOTE ]
CO in this hand is LP 33/5. SB is LAG 40/20

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (7 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero??

Raise and maybe clean up a bigger Ace, or call and keep the customer behind you in?

[/ QUOTE ]
Look at the LAGS #'s he doesn't have a bigger ace to clear out he would have 3bet you b4 flop

[TStoneMBD]

[ QUOTE ]
a raise also cuts your implied odds for when you do hit your hand on later streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

please dont get me started on this again. implied odds, while exhistent, are entirely irrelevant concerning your flop action.

[CardSharpCook]

I love these "hands in a vacuum". As if poker isn't played in regards to the hand before and the hand to come. I don't think there is a line I take every time. I think that the raise here is so overused - it almost screams "I'm on a draw!", in a vacuum, that's how I'd read your raise. But how are players going to read you? Is there any chance they'll think your trying to make the draws pay?

Also, what are the odds that 1) the CO has an ace and 2) an ace will fall? and 3) he has you out-kicked? 4) the OTHER card is NOT a club. If 1) than 2) = 8%. Say 20% for 1). And say 75% for 3). 22% for 4) There is a 1.1% that he'll have an ace AND it will beat you IF an ace falls. Now, will he fold his ace with a better kicker?

If you raise here, don't do it to "clean up your outs". Do it because it gives you fold equity on later streets. Do it because you think you'll get called by the CO and be making 2:1 when you have a 40% of winning the hand. Do it because it will get you a free card. NOW IM NOT SAYING YOU HAVE TO RAISE HERE. but if you do, do it for the right reasons.

For me, it depends on what I think will happen next. (that is, do I think the CO will fold and the SB will fold to my turn bet or do I think...) It depends on how the SB and CO perceive my raises. This is not an auto-bet.

CSC