QJs in the CO - questions PF and on the Turn

btspider · #1 08-03-2004, 12:31 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

if I were MP3, I would just call. in CO, I raised to buy the button, should I just let him and the blinds come along?

Flop: (10 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls.

Should I cap? If I had KJ or KT there is room for another face card flush that I beat.. but not with QJ. I'm not sure how well the flop bet 'disguises' my flush in other players' eyes.

River: (12.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB
Main Pot: 14.50 BB, between Hero and UTG+1.

easypete · #2 08-03-2004, 12:39 PM

Limp pf. QJs is a strong drawing hand... why scare people off? Not very strong heads-up.

other than that... good all around.

btspider · #3 08-03-2004, 12:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Limp pf. QJs is a strong drawing hand... why scare people off? Not very strong heads-up.

other than that... good all around.

[/ QUOTE ]

i posted this because it is in between several PF ideas for me.

I would limp in MP3 after 2 limpers.
I would limp in CO after 3 limpers.
I would raise in CO after 1 limper.

I really like to have the button with the big drawing hands, but the button may still fold anyway.. hmm..

nolanfan34 · #4 08-03-2004, 01:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Limp pf. QJs is a strong drawing hand... why scare people off? Not very strong heads-up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a raise here is intended to get anything heads up. The question is whether it's a +EV play to raise or limp in a multiway pot with this hand. I think it's close either way, and I'd probably raise on Party .50/1 here too.

I think the rest of the play is fine. You're probably drawing dead after that 3-bet on the turn more times than you're ahead of a smaller flush, so the call on the river is fine.

cold_cash · #5 08-03-2004, 01:05 PM

I think you played this one way too soft.

Raise pre-flop, yes.

Cap the turn, raise the river.

The other player doesn't know you have a flush, trust me. (And even if he did, he still has to beat it.)

If this is the one time in a hundred that he has a higher one, them's the breaks, but you're going to win this hand way, way, way more often than your opponent is.

easypete · #6 08-03-2004, 01:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I really like to have the button with the big drawing hands, but the button may still fold anyway.. hmm..

[/ QUOTE ]

I have this argument w/ a friend all the time. He defends his button and will try to buy the button w/ marginal hands to gain the advantage.

I think this is a good plan for NL (which is what he was playing, now switching to limit), but I don't think it's a good reason for limit.

I think in limit, you have to be more concerned w/ playing your hands for what they are worth. You have a suited connector with not a lot of top-card power. These are good in multiway pots, but not very good HU.

You need a big pot to play this, why not let the blinds in?

The reason you need a big pot, is because you need to get paid off for a hand that is going to hit a flop about 15%-20% (probably wrong here) of the time. You want 4 or 5 players in the pot (at least) to pay you off for taking this risk.

DMBFan23 · #7 08-03-2004, 01:10 PM

crap, I've been raising this PF in all those situations...

I also would have called the turn instead of capping.

DMBFan23 · #8 08-03-2004, 01:13 PM

I think this would own a lot of hands HU, I'd love to have it.

Sarge85 · #9 08-03-2004, 01:14 PM

Raise-and re-raise on all streets.

PF Raise was good as well.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

nepenthe · #10 08-03-2004, 01:15 PM

You should cap the turn. If he still bets into you on the river, I can then decide whether to call or raise 1 more. I'd lean towards raising once unless I had a read suggesting otherwise.