Party Poker Low Limit Stud Structure

[Rockfish]

If I can't hold my own playing hold'em at Party I'll probably play stud. I was looking in on the 0.5/1 stud and stud/8 games and they, unlike those on paradise, have an ante. It's a whopping $0.25! At an 8 handed stud game, theres $2 in the pot and the bring-in is a quarter. The first raise is to $0.50.

How high do you have to play before you come across a structure like this again? What are the antes at $50/100?

Is this game playable?

Some off-the-cuff observations. Stealing the antes should be impossible. If you're the bring-in and the only other player in the pot has raised, how can you not call? You would be getting 11:1 on your call.

It seems like you would have to play pretty loose (raising with small pairs, small kickers and any three suited, any ace door card) just to stay even. I can't imagine a tight player could beat this game unless the opposition is horrhendous and the rake is small.

Comments?

[SittingBull]

5/10 and 10/20 is about 10% of the small bet(SB) in casinos.
In very low limit games like 1/2 to 1/5, there is USUALLY no ante in the casinos.
Even at the 10/20 game level,one has to be able to steal antes occasionally to survive the game.
The ante in the 15/30 game is about 20% of SB;50/100,about
20% of SB; 100/200 , about 25% of the SB.
Note that "Real Poker" starts at 15/30 limit because of the higher ante.
In this game , there is more of an early "knocking out" strategy--raising,betting aggressively on the early rounds.
If one can consistently beat this game,he will be able to move up to even higher limits;if he cannot beat this game,forget aboutb beating the higher limit games.
I believe the reason that there is usually NO ante in the real small limit games at casinos is that it is very unlikely that one will be able to steal the antes.
Hence,the games would be reduced to crap shoots.
Unless several players are folding in these very low-limit games on the 'net,U will not be able to protect your hands.
Hence,the game will be a crap shoot.
In the very high limit games,there is sufficient folding so one is able to protect his hand.
Whether or not the very low limit games are beatable depends on the plays of the opposition. If almost everyone stays to see 6th and 7th Strs., look for another table. If a few players are folding,there might be an opportunity for U to steal some antes.
U will then have a shot at beating these games.
If U see a table with very little or no folding for several rounds,do NOT play. The key to winning in games is to be able to protect your big pairs and be able to do some ante stealing when there are antes involved.
If the game is such that this can't be done,do not play.
In general,the higher the ante in relation to the betting limits,the more aggression there is and the more cards players will buy--hence,more players will tend to stay in for two or more rounds. In summary,with several players sticking around for several Strs. in an ante game,u can expect your bankroll to be gradually depleted over time.
So,unless U are interested in just having a little fun and do not care whether U win or lose,DO NOT PLAY in these games UNLESS the above conditions are favorable to U.
Happy pokering,
[img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] SittingBull

[Wombat6]

Hey Rock fish better fix that quote [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] . It is not mine. it belongs to John Vorhaus. it is contained in his Book Killer Poker - Kensington publishing group.
<ob review blurb> a funny insightfull easy read.


Wombat 6

Study, Play, Analyze, Repeat.

[Andy B]

The ante in a $100/200 game is $25. I'm pretty sure that there is no game where the ante is half of a small bet.

If I bring it in with (73)2 or some such, the next guy completes with an Ace showing, and it's folded around to me, I'm folding too. I may be getting 11:1 immediate pot odds, but I'm going to be facing bets on the next couple of streets as well, and there is no fourth street card that's going to make me like my hand. You're right, though--stealing the antes should be nearly impossible.

Why wouldn't this game be playable? The huge ante does make it more of a crapshoot, but sound play should get the money. The game might be unbeatable if it is heavily raked. It also might not be worthwhile if the players are decent. I think that most good players are playing higher than this, so I'll guess that this game is beatable.

It seems like you would have to play pretty loose (raising with small pairs, small kickers and any three suited, any ace door card) just to stay even.

Why would you be raising with these hands? I'd limp with the small pairs if I thought that I could get in cheap, and I play most three-flushes, but why raise? Are you trying to steal the antes? They aren't for sale, as you've already pointed out. It is true that in high-ante stud, you usually want to knock people out, but you're suggesting doing so with the kinds of hands that depend on implied odds.

If the other players in the game are playing decently, you'd be best off playing fewer hands than you ordinarily might, but playing more of those hands aggressively. Yould also be better off looking for a game with some bad players. If it's a limp-fest, limp in with those small pairs and small flush draws and be prepared to get paid off when you hit, same as any other small game.

[Rockfish]

My gut feeling is given the conditions you describe, low rake, bad players, that the game is probably playable. It seems like you would need a pretty large bankroll to play, almost large enough such that you might almost be able to play 2/4 where the ante is lower proportionate to the betting structure.

I'm not really considering playing this game currently, because I've finally got a grasp on how to play hold'em, and there's some tremendously bad players at the low limits.

Rockfish

[Walter]

low limit s/8 should be easier to beat than low limit holdem because:

1. you have less problem with schooling (multiple bad players combining to draw you out). if you start with good cards, it is harder for people to make miracle two pair or other hands that you regularly lose to in no-foldem.

2. you can read hands more easily because of upcards (and people are not often misrepresenting what they have).

3. you often are freerolling, where you get at least 1/2 the pot, and can win the whole pot, so you have less hands where you are a pure loser.

The one thing to consider is that more people who are novices are learning holdem first, so the average holdem player may be worse than the average s/8 player, but that does not necessarily mean that the average HE game is easier to beat than the average s/8 game.

[Rockfish]

I absolutely love Stud/8. I'm not being sarcastic. It's so much fun to play because most of the time other players make such monumental mistakes and I almost always know where I stand. On the other hand, I don't have the bankroll to play 2/4, and I'd rather play tight than loose so a smaller ante in the 0.5/1 game would make me happier.

Rockfish

[Graham]

Better think about that rake and how it affects the profitability of the game.

You will have to play fairly loose, but I think Andy's right - you can't just play anything that's plain crud. Play on the later streets will be very important (it should be anyway when you play stud/8).

My advice would be to play in the $2/4 games (which, if like other online sites, will be $0.25 ante and $2 bring-in). Tight play is rewarded there. If you don't want to invest too much in the site, just hang out and wait until the 2/4 game looks nice and soft; then you should be looking good for a likely winning start with your $50 or $100...provided you've read the old Zee book.

G

[Rockfish]

Aye. What you say is true and I've read the cover off it.

Rockfish