99, a maniac, and some interesting turn action - Page 2

Student Caine · #11 10-05-2005, 05:55 PM

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I would lead the flop hoping to get CO to raise, I think that's a nice opportunity to protect our hand. Everything else looks good, pot is so big that I guess you have to call the river.

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Hmmmm...interesting. I was a big fan of waiting to raise, but this is not a bad play either. I need to think on this one a bit more.... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

tiltaholic · #12 10-05-2005, 05:57 PM

was there a particular reason not to check raise the flop?
i think thats what i would have done.

as you played it i think i call it down too and hate it the whole way.

shadow29 · #13 10-05-2005, 06:04 PM

I think that this hand becomes tons easier to play after 3-betting preflop.

Or, alternatively we could call pf, and then bet into the pfr (since he's wicked aggro post-flop: 2.3 with a 75/33 is definetly not the same as 20/12/2.3), forcing 5.5:1 to any callers.

MrWookie47 · #14 10-05-2005, 06:11 PM

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was there a particular reason not to check raise the flop?
i think thats what i would have done.

as you played it i think i call it down too and hate it the whole way.

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I think check/raising this flop is a very poor choice. I think that a c/r would bear a strong resemblence to what not to do in SSH's section on waiting to the turn. However, I think I may have missed an opportunity to protect my hand by not betting and letting the maniac raise. I made up for it by scoring a boatload of Sklansky bucks with the turn c/r and what is probably a much larger equity edge. I'm still not sure exactly which is right, but I'm leaning towards the flop bet at this point.

Greg J · #15 10-05-2005, 06:12 PM

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... we could call pf, and then bet into the pfr (since he's wicked aggro post-flop: 2.3 with a 75/33 is definetly not the same as 20/12/2.3), forcing 5.5:1 to any callers.

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I like this line. I think betting on the flop here is best.

jacarney · #16 10-05-2005, 06:12 PM

How would Villian handle a donkbet? If he's likely to raise with a wide range, I would donkbet (to try to knock out the other players) and then 3-bet if I've isolated Villain.

If he's not likely to raise, then I play it just like you did.

MrWookie47 · #17 10-05-2005, 06:14 PM

I considered 3betting preflop, but I decided against it because it was 4 ways, and I was OOP. HU with the maniac is an automatic 3bet, and 3 ways, I probably still would have done it. Four handed, though, is not a great situation for 99. My fold equity is much smaller, and a single overcard is more likely to doom me. It's worth considering, however. Anyone else 3bet here preflop?

Wizard0965 · #18 10-05-2005, 06:27 PM

I agree with the bet on the flop to protect, hoping that the maniac isolates himself with me. HU I would three bet, but I can't say there is good reason to three bet four way, all it does in the long run is give those along for the ride better odds to draw out.

Roadstar · #19 10-05-2005, 06:29 PM

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Here's a hand I just played that I wasn't too sure about.

Reads: CO in this hand was a borderline maniac. His stats were 75/33/2.3. He would bet and raise a lot of hands, but he might slow down if shown a lot of heat. He was also running extremely well, up almost 50 BB over not that many hands, which no doubt factors into his high stats somewhat. He sees a lot of showdowns, but his trashy starting hands kept hitting.

Button was quite loose, but I didn't have as many hands on him. He seemed pretty passive.

Party Poker 3.00/6.00 Hold'em (5 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 folds, CO raises, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.00 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.00 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets, Button calls, SB calls, Hero raises, CO calls, Button 3-bets, SB folds, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (16.00 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 18.00 BB.

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Did you have a read on SB?

Preflop - call is fine, 3 bet would be for a little value I guess (but harder to protect after the flop)

Flop - Given your read on CO, you should bet hoping CO would raise to blow button and SB off (check raise is definitely wrong here, building the pot like that would increase the # of guys coming to showdown with you). If this works, I would call CO's raise and check raise the turn.

Turn - Given the flop play, C/R is ok. Buttons call reraise indicates you're WB. Metagame reasons, miracle 9 or gutshot could justify a call.

River - Are you good 6% of the time here? Its close but I would think not.

Very interesting hand!

#20 10-05-2005, 06:30 PM

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I considered 3betting preflop, but I decided against it because it was 4 ways, and I was OOP. HU with the maniac is an automatic 3bet, and 3 ways, I probably still would have done it. Four handed, though, is not a great situation for 99. My fold equity is much smaller, and a single overcard is more likely to doom me. It's worth considering, however. Anyone else 3bet here preflop?

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4 handed OOP I don't like a raise. Would like to hear Shadow's thoughts on it.