Aggressive or just stupid?

[Hojglad]

This may be very true. Note the disclaimer I left at the end. I guess we should just be glad that they call.

Oh, and to be completely accurate, he open-limped with Q5o. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[caggin]

Call me weak tight but i check/fold the first hand on the flop. 2 overcards, one being the very popular A, 5 opponents, possible flush draws and another T could complete a straight. Chances of you winning this hand are slim to none. I'm outta there. I think I fold the second hand too. If not after the first bet, certainly after the reraise. 2 overcards and someone bets into the pf raiser. That's already bad news, but the 3-bet plus MP2 cold calling = no good. (But I think I fold after the first bet, unless I have a read that utg is crazy.)

[Punker]

You should have folded preflop

[deepsquat]

Hand1- check/fold the river- u will never be good here. what do u think they are hanging around with?

Hand2- i think you need to fold this flop.

[ajrenni]

With respect to hand 2, I would be more likely to try your flop play HU against an aggressive blind defender. There are some players who will call the PFR and bet the flop whether they hit or not, figuring that you will fold if you miss; they will often fold right away to a raise. The fact that they bet instead of check-raising you is a clue that they are trying this. It is somewhat of a risky play in a small pot, but against the right player, it can be profitable.

In your situation, the two limpers are not worried about defending a possible steal, and one already called the flop bet. Your chances of winning the pot right there with a raise are basically zero, and you are almost certainly drawing to 2 discounted outs, so folding is better than raising.

[AASooted]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand1- check/fold the river- u will never be good here. what do u think they are hanging around with?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd seen a couple of guys at the table end up at showdown with crap, and I made the mistake of extrapolating that tiny bit of information to cover the whole table. Not smart.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand2- i think you need to fold this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're right.

Thanks again to everyone for confirming my feeling that I was the donkey in these hands. Obviously "just stupid" is the consensus, and rightly so.

[bozlax]

Uh, first hand: stupid. I don't bet out a flop with 2 broadway cards with TT. Looks like MP1 rode you to the river with a bare ace.

Second hand: aggressive. I like it. 2 overcards, but neither of them an ace, run a semi-bluff with position at the field, but when you get 3-bet by the opener and MP2 doesn't budge, you are right to bail.

[hicherbie]

1: i think its easier not to raise pf in the BB since nobody is folding...and this is a much easier hand to play vs a large field in a small pot. postflop...with two overs and a large field i slow down a bit to see what happens. putting yourself into the lead makes this a difficult hand i think.

2. good raise pf in the CO...i think the flop raise is ok...at least its better than calling. folding is the only way you can respond to the 3-bet from UTG. i think i just fold it on the flop most of the time without a read though.

[bozlax]

Ok, after posting my response, I read the rest of the thread. All I can say is, holy crap, when did Micros get so weird?

In the first hand you've got 6 players seeing the flop, thinking that ONE of them isn't holding an ace that he'll ride to showdown is insane, and you have 2nd worst possibile position. Check/fold this flop! Out of the BB in an unraised pot, I might not even raise with TT, since you're not going to fold anybody and on the flop you'll be out of position playing a difficult hand if a broadway falls, but you will inflate the pot to a point where it won't be wrong for a gutshot to cold-call 2 on the flop. If Button had raised, then maybe I 3-bet to isolate, but that's about it.

In the second hand you have a MUCH smaller field and the BEST position, and there is no ace on the flop. You're going to be bet into on this flop by A5s, for instance, and MP2 is going to hang in with 66/77/88. Since a raise on the flop doesn't really protect your hand from QJ, for instance, you might be better off waiting to pop the turn blank, but I don't mind trying to take over on the flop. Unfortunately it looks like UTG actually caught his K, and MP2 is happy to stick around, so at that point I figure I'm drawing to 2 outs (at best, a 9 still kills me to QJ) and it's time to get out.

How did everyone get these so wrong?

[@bsolute_luck]

umm..well i think they might have gotten weird to you because i think you got both hands horribly wrong.

the first hand is sorta fine, but check/folding this flop is pathetically sad. you have 2 backdoors and the pot is big. you have at least a hand worth a check/call and check/fold the turn UI. and to not raise TT in BB for fear of the worst is very weak. you assume you're going to lose before you even get in the hand. you raise because you have the best hand at the time. auto-betting and failure to properly evaluate the flop is the problem.

hand #2: you seem to have a philosophy based on "if there is an Ace out or not". a King and Ten can beat you too you know.

this actually is a check/fold situation because of the smaller pot, UTG has bet into and MP has called. not only do you have the 3rd best hand right now, you have no redraws and i doubt Q and J are folding for straight draws. the only reason i can see raising this flop is...actually i can't see one.

it's funny that you'd rather check/fold a possible 2nd best hand with redraws in a larger pot, but are happy to raise a hand 3rd best, no redraws, and a smaller pot. sounds ass-backwards to me.