Maximum extraction in huge pot

rvg72 · #1 11-09-2005, 07:35 PM

All of the villains are semi-tight, semi-aggressive but nothing that stood out. How would you play this differently to extract the most amount of money? I explained my reasoning at each street - feel free to comment.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, MP2 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

I like my call here - it didn't keep the UTG+1 in it but I think a raise knocks out UTG+2 and MP2 often enough and I want them all in this pot.

Turn: (9.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Well I have close to the nuts... only thing I'm worried about at this point is a King on the river and a guy holding AK. I want to give UTG+2 a chance to call this and MP+2 a chance to raise.

River: (17.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)

I think this is the perfect river card. Now we likely are up against a flush and a set of aces or lower full house. What do I do here?

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

SeaEagle · #2 11-09-2005, 09:06 PM

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I want to give UTG+2 a chance to call this and MP+2 a chance to raise.

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This is silly. If UTG+2 will call 2 cold, then he'll call 3. And you want to give both MP2 and CO and chance to raise.

You have to 3-bet this turn. At least one person is on a flush draw, and 80% of the time you're not going to collect any bets from them on the river.

As you played it, bet out on the river. Since you had all the good cards on the turn and there was still a bet and a raise, there's an excellent chance that you'll get to 3-bet this. And if, for some bizarre reason, nobody made the flush you are risking getting this checked through which would suck worse than words can describe.

ghostface · #3 11-09-2005, 09:22 PM

This is terrible, passive, dont want to lose any customers play. You need to raise the flop, the turn and go as many bets as possible on each street.

On the flop you must raise because there is an overwhelming chance your hand is best and you must charge the flush draws to come along, whoever has it.

On the turn you make the nuts and get bet and raised into after your flop action. Here you MUST come alive and 3-bet that [censored], unless, of course, you hate money.

With your line I donk the river and hope that its comes back to you capped. Enough with being fancy, bet your hand to make sure you get some more bets in the middle.

I count 7BB you missed by the time the river card hit!!!! By trying to kepp UTG+2 in you gave away wayyyy too many bets by not making MP2 or CO cap the turn after your 3-bet. Even if you are sure that UTG+2 would fold for 3-bets cold you still need to 3-bet since you may lose 2 bets from UTG+2 by 3-betting, but you will gain 4 if either MP2 or CO caps on the turn. Then you know that you will more than make up for folding UTG+2 on the river unless both your remaining opponents have weak aces and freeze up when the flush card falls. It's a risk you have to take.

Besides, I'm sure UTG+2 would have called 3 cold anyway.

shant · #4 11-09-2005, 09:31 PM

CHECK. AGAIN.

ghostface · #5 11-09-2005, 09:33 PM

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CHECK. AGAIN.

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You dont think this is good play, do you?

shant · #6 11-09-2005, 09:37 PM

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CHECK. AGAIN.

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You dont think this is good play, do you?

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No, I like your line. I was just being a dick.

SeaEagle · #7 11-09-2005, 11:18 PM

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This is terrible, passive,

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Passive?

What about having AQ, top trips on the flop, the nuts the rest of the way and doing nothing but check/calling strikes you as passive?

belloc · #8 11-09-2005, 11:33 PM

Cold calling two bets on that flop (or most paired flops) screams that you just made trips but are afraid to announce it. You've got people that are excited about their hands, and you have them beat. Move the mouse to the right, click until it breaks.

Cumulonimbus · #9 11-09-2005, 11:38 PM

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Hero checks

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Hero calls

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Hero checks

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Hero calls

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Hero checks

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Hero calls

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rvg72 · #10 11-09-2005, 11:46 PM

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On the turn you make the nuts and get bet and raised into after your flop action. Here you MUST come alive and 3-bet that [censored], unless, of course, you hate money.

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Yeah - I was actually intending on check raising here but as you said, I didn't want to scare away customers - looking at it again, the extra bets would have made up for the players who may have folded. Would you lead out here or check raise knowing that it will be at least raised if not re-raised by the time it gets back to you.

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Enough with being fancy, bet your hand to make sure you get some more bets in the middle.

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My problem is slow playing monster hands has worked so well over the last couple of months that I use it too often - seems pretty clear now that I could have capped it and had at least 2 callers the whole way.

This hand didn't feel right which is why I posted it. I'm normally aggressive and at lower limits I would have bet this hard but at 5/10 I'm finding people do not stick around in pots they shouldn't be in (i.e. playing properly). That has lead to increased fancy play syndrome which is bad.

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I count 7BB you missed by the time the river card hit!!!! By trying to kepp UTG+2 in you gave away wayyyy too many bets by not making MP2 or CO cap the turn after your 3-bet. Even if you are sure that UTG+2 would fold for 3-bets cold you still need to 3-bet since you may lose 2 bets from UTG+2 by 3-betting, but you will gain 4 if either MP2 or CO caps on the turn. Then you know that you will more than make up for folding UTG+2 on the river unless both your remaining opponents have weak aces and freeze up when the flush card falls. It's a risk you have to take.

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That was well thought out and after reading it it became pretty clear that this was the best approach.

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This is silly. If UTG+2 will call 2 cold, then he'll call 3. And you want to give both MP2 and CO and chance to raise.

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At that point he hadn't called anything - he checked and way more often than not he'd be folding this with even 2 bets. It turns out that he did call 2 cold but I didn't know that at the time and calling 3 cold is a hell of a lot more difficult than calling 2 cold especially when it would be close to guaranteed that it would be capped. That was my reasoning and I think I am correct that he would have folded with 3 bets almost every time, but, I don't think that even mattered - I still should have raised.

Thanks for the constructive comments and cool pictures,

rvg