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  #1  
Old 05-26-2005, 03:26 PM
Paluka Paluka is offline
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Default typical situation where I\'m still an idiot

Shorthanded game, you raise on button TT. sb 3 bets, you cap. Flop A94 rainbow, and the sb checkraises you. He is an aggressive high stakes player.
What, o, what should my plan be?
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  #2  
Old 05-26-2005, 03:34 PM
YoureToast YoureToast is offline
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Default Re: typical situation where I\'m still an idiot

Wouldn't this question be harder if he just cold called your flop bet?
With the CR, there are about 11.5 sbs in the pot; I would call and fold if a K or Q drops on the turn, otherwise call him down.
If he just cold called your bet, now I'm scared shitless and don't know whether to bet and call a CR, whether call/raise if he leads or what to do on the river.

These are tough decisions no matter how you look at them.

Edit: by the way, the check raise to me suggest that he DOESN'T have the A -- cuz if he had the A, its likely he'd call and raise the turn.
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  #3  
Old 05-26-2005, 03:38 PM
Paluka Paluka is offline
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Default Re: typical situation where I\'m still an idiot

[ QUOTE ]

Edit: by the way, the check raise to me suggest that he DOESN'T have the A -- cuz if he had the A, its likely he'd call and raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with this, because if I don't have an ace he knows i'm probably checking behind on the turn.
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Old 05-26-2005, 03:44 PM
diddle diddle is offline
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Default Re: typical situation where I\'m still an idiot

I think it's close between calling down and folding, leaning towards folding. By call down, I mean 3-bet flop and call river.

just no easy answer in these hands
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  #5  
Old 05-26-2005, 03:47 PM
SA125 SA125 is offline
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Default Re: typical situation where I\'m still an idiot

I disagree also because I think SB's thinking is - a bigger A will 3 bet the flop or raise the turn. If 3 bet and checked behind, A is probably good. If flat called and raised on the turn, trouble.
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  #6  
Old 05-26-2005, 03:50 PM
rigoletto rigoletto is offline
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Default Re: typical situation where I\'m still an idiot

You really need to know what he typically 3-bets with here. A lot of players auto 3-bet Aces in this spot, but the truly tough players has a wide range. Against overagressive donks I like calling to the river. Against thinking tough players I prefer 3-betting; they'll lay down a bluff or underpair to a 3-bet most of the time, so if 4-bet you can fold and if called you chek the turn and sometimes call the river- checked to you can valuebet the river. You should vary this by calling the flop c/r and then raise either turn or river a fraction of the time (about 10% I would say).

It is never going to be a high EV situation, but you shouldn't lay down hands like this to often when it's shorthanded.
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  #7  
Old 05-26-2005, 03:52 PM
tpir90036 tpir90036 is offline
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Default Re: typical situation where I\'m still an idiot

I don't see how you have enough equity to calldown unless we put a lot of non-ace, non-pair hands in his 3-bet pre-flop *and* check-raise the flop range. How likely is that? I suppose it's possible if he thinks your cap is much more likely to suggest a pair then a big Ace....but now I am just talking myself into calling down.
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  #8  
Old 05-26-2005, 03:54 PM
YoureToast YoureToast is offline
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Default Re: typical situation where I\'m still an idiot

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Edit: by the way, the check raise to me suggest that he DOESN'T have the A -- cuz if he had the A, its likely he'd call and raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with this, because if I don't have an ace he knows i'm probably checking behind on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm....if you check behind anytime someone coldcalls your autoflop bet with an A on board and you don't have the A, I'm gonna coldcall a lot more of your autoflop bets cuz I get to see 2 more cards for the price of 1 small bet and if you bet the turn, I know you have the A.
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  #9  
Old 05-26-2005, 03:54 PM
Nigel Nigel is offline
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Default Re: typical situation where I\'m still an idiot

I had this same situation last night with a blind stealer who liked to do the 6-max limp re-raise with all sorts of garbage.

I capped him in the big blind, fired out the Axx on the flop and was raised.... sigh

I picked up my straight draw on the turn and got stuck calling down on the river hoping it was another time he was being a donk.

His AK didn't look so donkish.

I don't think there is any easy answer to these situations, even with a read on the player, the flop raise could just be anything.
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  #10  
Old 05-26-2005, 04:00 PM
roy_miami roy_miami is offline
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Default Re: typical situation where I\'m still an idiot

[ QUOTE ]
Against thinking tough players I prefer 3-betting, if called you check the turn and sometimes call the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Any chance he lays down JJ or QQ if you fire again on the turn?
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