AK vs extremely Aggresive tag(says PT)

[POKhER]

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Cap that flop! You're almost certainly way ahead here barring an unlikely 77/66 from MP. Button isn't aggressive to let you know what he has either way and he loves to get to showdown, so ignore the monsters and keep betting.

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correct me if I'm wrong pokher, but the reasoning behind waiting until the turn to raise again after MP's 3bet isn't because we are seeing monsters but because we want to protect our hand. if button has some 7x/6x/gutshot hand we can force him to make mistakes on the turn much easier if we let MP bet into us again.

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Spot on, Hand protection.

I didn't expect SB to fold of course and that would mean the pot would be huge.

its 13SB now, 4players paying 4bets = 16bets + 13 bets.

Thats 29SB on the turn or 14.5BB
MP bets, I raise thats 17.5:2 or 8-9:1 (Gut shots can call with HUGE IMPLIED if they hit).

Anyhow its pretty hard to think that when holding TPTK in a huge pot with one nutty opponent lol.

I think my reasoning is ok and i think protection probably was the best line although i wonder if the implied actually mean he can call a gutshot anyhow the way i played it.

Which would mean capping for value was best.

edit: didnt notice peters response sorry,
MP's 3bet after me showing alot of aggression preflop and on the flop says me i'm behind so i think capping(Specially when the queen hits) is a bit to aggressive.

Who disagrees? What have you got MP on?

[Peter Harris]

even from someone with 4.2 postflop aggression? with that i'd reckon betting KK and AK-AT comes out like that.

Intriguing tho as i am a spaztard turn aggression man.

[jba]

I call small sample size on the 4.2 AF bit, I see that kind of stuff in my daily stats all the time and i'm a 2.6 kind of guy. nothing about pokher's excellent reads made me think KK/AT is even possible, and we're behind AQ and AJ by the time the river rolls around.

even if KK/AT is in his range we know for a fact AQ/QQ/AA/77/66 are too, that's a lot of ground to make up.

[milesdyson]

if this guy were more reasonable i would not raise the turn.

against this guy it still seems very close. he can definitely open raises 66 or 77 utg, and he can also defintely have AQ. so i'm not too sure about the turn raise. i mean c'mon, our hand is very obviously AK/AQ.

the only hands i see him bet/3-betting the flop with are 66, 77, AK (no preflop cap though), AQ, AJ, and then A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]X[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] hands that he raised preflop.

maybe i'll look at this in more detail later!

the plan is good, i'm just not sure i follow through when the queen falls is all.

[POKhER]

4.2AF is what made me wonder if i should cap the turn also peter, however having watched him play i actually thought my PA was playing up and his AF had been distorted.

Further checks on his stats seem to show he may be running hot. His bb/100 is 4.5 and his W$WSF is around 50.


However admitedly PT stats arn't my strong point, something i need to read up on further. Specially ranges for 6max.

So is anyone calling a river bet from MP here? What if button calls or button folds, I assume if button raises we're folding.

Thanks.

Edit: Miles, yeah the queen royal screwed me a bit and i lost a fair bit of hope. His Af of 4.2 still gave some hope as to an overplayed flush draw or ACE? As i say though, i was wondering if PT screwed me(it didnt).

[callydrias]

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Cap that flop! You're almost certainly way ahead here barring an unlikely 77/66 from MP. Button isn't aggressive to let you know what he has either way and he loves to get to showdown, so ignore the monsters and keep betting.

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correct me if I'm wrong pokher, but the reasoning behind waiting until the turn to raise again after MP's 3bet isn't because we are seeing monsters but because we want to protect our hand. if button has some 7x/6x/gutshot hand we can force him to make mistakes on the turn much easier if we let MP bet into us again.

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I'll reply since you quoted my post.

Raising the turn here, as played, gives button 14:2 to call. Do you really think you're forcing out someone who sees almost 50% WtSD? I certainly wouldn't count on it. Sure, you may be creating a bigger mistake for the button if he has a small pair or a gutshot, but who's to say what he has? Until he wakes up, I'm ignoring him. I think there's more value in showing strength on the flop against the aggressor to allow you to take more advantage of your position on later streets.

Regarding the "monsters" bit, I was only acknowledging that there was another player in the hand, not that OP's decision to slow down was every based on that.

[Peter Harris]

so do people think that MP is going for the river c/r? I doubt he has such a high aggression factor by checking behind 2 pairs and sets on flushing rivers.

I think 1200 hands will help define 4.2 aggro, i mean that's sustained overagression over quite a few hands...yeah it's not a cast-iron sample, but even if someone is running pretty goot it takes a real man to have over 4 overall aggro...

[jba]

yes i'm calling a river bet, no i'm not calling a raise, and whether button calls or folds is irrelevant.

[POKhER]

no i dont think he is going for a checkraise, he doesn't seem a guy to play a hand "fancy" and a river C/r here is pretty stupid.

For all i know he could be a 2+2er, theres alot of them clearing the bonus lately it seems.


JBA
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and whether button calls or folds is irrelevant.

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Interesting as i dont think he holds anything TBH, but i think some people may take that into consideration hence i gave the option. I.e. he may be a wimp with 2pair. I do only have ONE pair after all.

[callydrias]

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4.2AF is what made me wonder if i should cap the turn also peter, however having watched him play i actually thought my PA was playing up and his AF had been distorted.

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Keep in mind that AF is really an indication of calling frequency, not betting frequency. You can get a pretty high AF by just bet/folding a lot postflop.

Not that this means anything for this opponents (yet), but something to keep in mind.

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So is anyone calling a river bet from MP here? What if button calls or button folds, I assume if button raises we're folding.

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Yuck. The pot is huge, so we're not folding TPTK. I would call and then yell at button to not have hearts or some ratty two pair. If button raises...? The pot would be even huger. I think I'd only call if MP folded.