Curtains Hand#Horsd'oeuvres

[ilya]

HERO pushed last button for 6xbb at 75/150 blinds, 6-handed.


Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: A ( $1275 )
Seat 2: HERO ( $940 )
Seat 6: B ( $2255 )
Seat 7: C ( $3290 )
Seat 10: E ( $2240 )

Level:6
Blinds(100/200)

Dealt to HERO [ 8c 7d ]

E folds.
A folds.

HERO....?

[KingDan]

Easy push IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
Easy push IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]
What makes it easy?

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
HERO pushed last button for 6xbb at 75/150 blinds, 6-handed.


Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: A ( $1275 )
Seat 2: HERO ( $940 )
Seat 6: B ( $2255 )
Seat 7: C ( $3290 )
Seat 10: E ( $2240 )

Level:6
Blinds(100/200)

Dealt to HERO [ 8c 7d ]

E folds.
A folds.

HERO....?

[/ QUOTE ]

SNGPT it. It's a push.

[microbet]

I think it is generally a push, but not against all SB and BBs.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
HERO pushed last button for 6xbb at 75/150 blinds, 6-handed.


Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: A ( $1275 )
Seat 2: HERO ( $940 )
Seat 6: B ( $2255 )
Seat 7: C ( $3290 )
Seat 10: E ( $2240 )

Level:6
Blinds(100/200)

Dealt to HERO [ 8c 7d ]

E folds.
A folds.

HERO....?

[/ QUOTE ]

SNGPT it. It's a push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did before posting the hand, of course....SNGPT says it's anywhere from a clear push to a clear fold depending on what ranges you give it.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
HERO pushed last button for 6xbb at 75/150 blinds, 6-handed.


Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: A ( $1275 )
Seat 2: HERO ( $940 )
Seat 6: B ( $2255 )
Seat 7: C ( $3290 )
Seat 10: E ( $2240 )

Level:6
Blinds(100/200)

Dealt to HERO [ 8c 7d ]

E folds.
A folds.

HERO....?

[/ QUOTE ]

SNGPT it. It's a push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did before posting the hand, of course....SNGPT says it's anywhere from a clear push to a clear fold depending on what ranges you give it.

[/ QUOTE ]

To get it to say it's a fold you have to be putting in ridiculous ranges that don't make sense without an uber-read.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
HERO pushed last button for 6xbb at 75/150 blinds, 6-handed.


Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: A ( $1275 )
Seat 2: HERO ( $940 )
Seat 6: B ( $2255 )
Seat 7: C ( $3290 )
Seat 10: E ( $2240 )

Level:6
Blinds(100/200)

Dealt to HERO [ 8c 7d ]

E folds.
A folds.

HERO....?

[/ QUOTE ]

SNGPT it. It's a push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did before posting the hand, of course....SNGPT says it's anywhere from a clear push to a clear fold depending on what ranges you give it.

[/ QUOTE ]

To get it to say it's a fold you have to be putting in ridiculous ranges that don't make sense without an uber-read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. Putting SB on Loose and BB on 30% gives -0.1%. 30% doesn't seem especially ridiculous to me. More like average-ish for a big stack. After all, if BB thinks Hero is pushing with even just the top 70% of hands, he should still call with the top 47% or so. At the $200s I'd expect most opponents who make it to the bubble to be at least vaguely/intuitively aware of the adjustments.

[microbet]

Pushing 70% would be crazy though.

You don't have to go crazy to make this close to neutral though. Just having them both be pretty loose is enough. SB calling 15% and BB calling 20% does it.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
HERO pushed last button for 6xbb at 75/150 blinds, 6-handed.


Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: A ( $1275 )
Seat 2: HERO ( $940 )
Seat 6: B ( $2255 )
Seat 7: C ( $3290 )
Seat 10: E ( $2240 )

Level:6
Blinds(100/200)

Dealt to HERO [ 8c 7d ]

E folds.
A folds.

HERO....?

[/ QUOTE ]

SNGPT it. It's a push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did before posting the hand, of course....SNGPT says it's anywhere from a clear push to a clear fold depending on what ranges you give it.

[/ QUOTE ]

To get it to say it's a fold you have to be putting in ridiculous ranges that don't make sense without an uber-read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. Putting SB on Loose and BB on 30% gives -0.1%. 30% doesn't seem especially ridiculous to me. More like average-ish for a big stack. After all, if BB thinks Hero is pushing with even just the top 70% of hands, he should still call with the top 47% or so. At the $200s I'd expect most opponents who make it to the bubble to be at least vaguely/intuitively aware of the adjustments.

[/ QUOTE ]

30% includes K4s. That's ridiculous. For them to start calling with Q and J high, you have to have a god awful image or they have to be a very special opponent. I'm not saying I've never made calls like this with Q high, but a typical player is almost never doing so. What I'm saying is that if you really play around with ranges and stretch it out you can get it around EV neutral, but the ranges you assign are the extreme limits to their calling hands and often they'll be much tighter. If it's either neutral EV or +EV... you get the picture.

In the past few posts of yours you seem to be giving villain's too much credit to illustrate a specific point. Yes, the situations you've described happen, but they are not the norm and can't be treated as such in analysis. No knock on you, I really like your posts because they're so thoughtful; just an observation.